Instant-gratification, and the "Time Sink Here, Time Sink There" song. VERY LONG

[SniperRifle]

I like FFXIV's lot system. Could be better, but hey, that's where the players come in. Come up with our own systems.

This new system works great. Hey! You showed up. You did the work. It dropped for you! Congratulations, friend!!! Do you need it?

[ ] Yes. Thanks! Can't wait until we get your drop!

[ ] No. Who wants it? Oh, more than one. Lots, please.

Here's a [Flame Shield] with +10 troll resistance. You might be needing it.

[DrekeLamorte]

Your post is hardly ever constructive - and that "lolcasuals" mentality that you have is the reason why FFXIV will remain a niche and unsuccessful game.

/equip oh Flame Shield

Let's look at your comment objectively.

You clearly hate the 'lolcasuals' mentality. We both agree it's destructive communication. So why do you insist on commenting in a retaliatory manner. 'stfuhardcore' isn't any better.

Also, on a completely related note, please look at the bolded section. Have you ever even heard of FFXI? Better yet, have you ever even heard of 'lolFFIAmericaneasymode.' JP play differently then we do. They WANT a time-sink. They WANT difficulty and working really hard for their rewards. Now it's mostly a cultural difference on a higher level than the individual, but that's not to say there are some who dislike it. Just like there's many in America who LOVE it.

For SE to listen to all this "Make it harder! What am I paying for!?" and "It's too damn hard! I don't have time for this SH-." Well... Suffice to say, it's petty.

I'm not saying don't express your concerns about things, or stop providing constructive feedback. What I'm saying is, try to remember why these forums exist. To communicate with other players about the development process. When you start fighting about who this game is for, you make yourself look very, very misinformed.

At this point, the bare-bones of this game (character renders, general concept, etc.) are the only things 2.0 will have in common. Sure we see a little bit of the future with each patch, but as they slow down and listen to us post-patch, we start to lose focus of the fact that, it doesn't matter. None of this will be relevant in 2.0. If you want to stay on, and p2p this game for the rest of it's life, do it to it. Just keep in mind, the things you should be commenting on, is the distant future 2.0. Whatever may come each patch now, SE wants us to give them an idea of what we'd like to see in the final product.

I know that many would see this in a way that means I'm saying that we should just play this game in all of it's craptastrophe along the way and just take it with a grain of salt. You may be right. Either way, stop fighting each other. You won't get everything you want in this game, fact. So unify your opinions, and express them loud. If you disagree with the current proposal, make a new thread, formulate a postulate, and share it with everyone. Maybe your idea is the right of it, but just hasn't been expressed articulately enough yet.



PS: Completely forgot to mention that I mostly agree with the OP.

[Kidkaze]

/equip oh Flame Shield

Let's look at your comment objectively.

You clearly hate the 'lolcasuals' mentality. We both agree it's destructive communication. So why do you insist on commenting in a retaliatory manner. 'stfuhardcore' isn't any better.

Also, on a completely related note, please look at the bolded section. Have you ever even heard of FFXI? Better yet, have you ever even heard of 'lolFFIAmericaneasymode.' JP play differently then we do. They WANT a time-sink. They WANT difficulty and working really hard for their rewards. Now it's mostly a cultural difference on a higher level than the individual, but that's not to say there are some who dislike it. Just like there's many in America who LOVE it.

For SE to listen to all this "Make it harder! What am I paying for!?" and "It's too damn hard! I don't have time for this SH-." Well... Suffice to say, it's petty.

I'm not saying don't express your concerns about things, or stop providing constructive feedback. What I'm saying is, try to remember why these forums exist. To communicate with other players about the development process. When you start fighting about who this game is for, you make yourself look very, very misinformed.

At this point, the bare-bones of this game (character renders, general concept, etc.) are the only things 2.0 will have in common. Sure we see a little bit of the future with each patch, but as they slow down and listen to us post-patch, we start to lose focus of the fact that, it doesn't matter. None of this will be relevant in 2.0. If you want to stay on, and p2p this game for the rest of it's life, do it to it. Just keep in mind, the things you should be commenting on, is the distant future 2.0. Whatever may come each patch now, SE wants us to give them an idea of what we'd like to see in the final product.

I know that many would see this in a way that means I'm saying that we should just play this game in all of it's craptastrophe along the way and just take it with a grain of salt. You may be right. Either way, stop fighting each other. You won't get everything you want in this game, fact. So unify your opinions, and express them loud. If you disagree with the current proposal, make a new thread, formulate a postulate, and share it with everyone. Maybe your idea is the right of it, but just hasn't been expressed articulately enough yet.

Give this man a medal, he thoroughly deserves it! Adequately summed up and eloquently posted what I was too lazy to type out. Thumbs up for you sir.

[Lucifer]

A shame really...OP posts an extremely accurate assessment of this community, and we get people who start to deconstruct analogies. Yes people, OP wanted to discuss Soccer and Chess....morons.

I feel your words are wasted on a community who has assimilated to this new age of gaming.
Have you seen the market lately? You can purchase the best of the best through an item mall; with your real life money.

Road to riches? Paved with stalls. You buy your way up and people seem to enjoy this absurdity.

[Rutelor]

A shame really...OP posts an extremely accurate assessment of this community, and we get people who start to deconstruct analogies. Yes people, OP wanted to discuss Soccer and Chess....morons.

I feel your words are wasted on a community who has assimilated to this new age of gaming.
Have you seen the market lately? You can purchase the best of the best through an item mall; with your real life money.

Road to riches? Paved with stalls. You buy your way up and people seem to enjoy this absurdity.

Well, if the community needs a sample of the kind of opinion expression that I think detracts, rather than contribute, here it is. This quote comes to you directly from the current thread on Gear Repair:

i like the leves repairs however NEED to go i would rather lose 5-10 percent xp on death than spend gil on rep[airs and the wards are just plain stupid we NEED MORE CONTENT stop making shity content like iffrit we dont need time synks we need FUN FUN FUN now that being said i like the post about dm giving weapons and gear a buff instead of repairs come on yoshi and team get rid of tanaka's cvrapy ideas completely unlkess SE is being duechbags about it i fail to see why you havnt just said if tanaka made it scrap it

The thread I started was never about drop rates per se, although I did make a joke about them. I didn't even know there was a controversy raging on another thread about the Ifrit fight and the totem drop rate. I was referring more about a rather debased, unthinking minority that posts a lot, and fosters an atmosphere that I consider detrimental to the think-tank this forum is supposed to be. They tend to be the ones that, having been told repeatedly that the games is in a process, that content is being crafted as we speak, and that the goal date for delivery of its new look/feel/functionality/content will not come until the dawn of 2013, are still screaming about lack of content, demanding that it be rushed and then--post-rush and delivery--spew disparaging comments, contorting themselves in insults (all of which include the word SUCK)--about the content that came rushed and unfinished only because of their furious demands.

I know Square Enix is about to start charging, and I'm glad they are. For many reasons. But for said minority, this is only proof evident that the game should have content NOW. And it is also license for them to spew and contort some more. I'm having fun seeing the game acquire shape as I play it, I'm amazed at the ingenuity of the new team and their director, I'm surprised at the endless resources of earnestness, competence and diligence. And I'm shocked that the above-mentioned minority doesn't seem to see improvement, only reason to complain.

In the wake of a skills and actions re-haul that brought sense where there was none, adding interest, strategy and elegance to the players' interactions in one single swoop, and then went a good way to adding enough of a feeeling of "balance" to the combat system, I have read not one fully praiseful post here, for the good effort. Instead we still get the never ending litany about lack of content (a given. Pace Mr. Tanaka) and the echoes of "Sucks" ricochet all over. Well, the game needs time. Furthermore, if you want to play it, from here onward, you'll have to pay. Not that there's only reason for praise. Criticism is welcome and needed. Only let it be mindful, respectuf and (yes) constructive. Come to terms with it, start having fun, since there's plenty to be had, and enjoy the (we hope succesful) transformation about to take place in front of our eyes. It won't be perfect (it never is) but with our help, it might be good enough to make FFXIV the best game around. The potential is there. Now, will the community step up to the plate?

R

[Maxthunder]

Skipped reading the 11 pages to reply to this instead.

I played FFXI for 7 years starting at American release. I've always, always had deep, seething anger for that system. Join an endgame shell, be on a probationary period for a month (no lots, pass on everything), make it to full member and join a queue of lotting priorities for an item that may or (mostly) may not drop, on the run that they are doing this week. Probably nothing useful for you there anyhow.

Excuse my language....

FUCKING. STUPID.

I understand how and why it works the way it does. Kudos to whatever asshole couldn't mediate with his members, or maybe just didn't care and wanted the priority, that came up with that system. It stuck. Hard. Suddenly it was 'the way.'

I like FFXIV's lot system. Could be better, but hey, that's where the players come in. Come up with our own systems.

This new system works great. Hey! You showed up. You did the work. It dropped for you! Congratulations, friend!!! Do you need it?

[ ] Yes. Thanks! Can't wait until we get your drop!

[ ] No. Who wants it? Oh, more than one. Lots, please.

I do understand this and never did like it. Reason being is it is geared to 1 or 2 people in the linkshell who are just plain greedy. You could attend every event gain xx amount of point and some LS lead would say oh you dont have enough points and let his buddy lot the item. A system needs to be made that is fair and should not be use by a person thats just plain greedy and wants the complete set or what not just to say look I got it. I have seen people go afk and do nothing and they get there drop. The ffxi system wasnt fair to those who did the work.
I find that the current FFXIV drop system good and bad. Reason is if you already have the item you cant have 2 of the same item/gear that rare rare/ex. See the game knows you have 1 of that weapon and you should be allowed to give the 2nd 3rd and so forth and so on of the same drop to some1 who dosent have that weapon/gear. The current system takes the issue out of 1 player or group of players being greedy and hijacking a lotting system. Thats exactly what happend in FFXi with its lotting system. If all players are participating in said event all players should enjoy drops, not just a few selected players. It takes team work and everyones efforts not just 1 or 2 players to accomplish what ever goal it is.
Now who should decide what is fair should it be the players or should it be the DEV's? I personlyy think it should come from the DEV's as there not the 1's that will be greedy it is the players that will be greedy. I have not forgotten those that like to go afk and do nothing, those players should recieve nothing because they did nothing and a system can be made so that if you only did 1 or 2 action in a 30min- 2 hour event you did nothing, you get nothing period.
Now the current system is fine as in if it drops to you and if you need it, it belongs to you, if you dont need it you should have the option of passing it to someone who dose need/want it. This would make every1 happy except for those who want said item/gear 1st. Unfortunatly the moogle and ifrit weapons you dont have the option to do that but that is fine, except when you end up w 2 of same items/gear. The game already knows you have 1 of those item/gear and that should be put in a lottable pool.

[RemVye]

I do understand this and never did like it. Reason being is it is geared to 1 or 2 people in the linkshell who are just plain greedy. You could attend every event gain xx amount of point and some LS lead would say oh you dont have enough points and let his buddy lot the item. A system needs to be made that is fair and should not be use by a person thats just plain greedy and wants the complete set or what not just to say look I got it. I have seen people go afk and do nothing and they get there drop. The ffxi system wasnt fair to those who did the work.
I find that the current FFXIV drop system good and bad. Reason is if you already have the item you cant have 2 of the same item/gear that rare rare/ex. See the game knows you have 1 of that weapon and you should be allowed to give the 2nd 3rd and so forth and so on of the same drop to some1 who dosent have that weapon/gear. The current system takes the issue out of 1 player or group of players being greedy and hijacking a lotting system. Thats exactly what happend in FFXi with its lotting system. If all players are participating in said event all players should enjoy drops, not just a few selected players. It takes team work and everyones efforts not just 1 or 2 players to accomplish what ever goal it is.
Now who should decide what is fair should it be the players or should it be the DEV's? I personlyy think it should come from the DEV's as there not the 1's that will be greedy it is the players that will be greedy. I have not forgotten those that like to go afk and do nothing, those players should recieve nothing because they did nothing and a system can be made so that if you only did 1 or 2 action in a 30min- 2 hour event you did nothing, you get nothing period.
Now the current system is fine as in if it drops to you and if you need it, it belongs to you, if you dont need it you should have the option of passing it to someone who dose need/want it. This would make every1 happy except for those who want said item/gear 1st. Unfortunatly the moogle and ifrit weapons you dont have the option to do that but that is fine, except when you end up w 2 of same items/gear. The game already knows you have 1 of those item/gear and that should be put in a lottable pool.

Holy wall of text Batman...

lol it was so big I couldn't dodge it, I had to turn my monitor off.

[DrekeLamorte]

Here's what I would like to see for lotting options. Before I get started, we all know this is just wishful thinking, but thought I'd share anyhow.

_______________Common Pool__________________ ____Lotting Option____
| Member 1 ................................................. Want | . | ........ [ ] Need ........... |
| Member 2 ................................................. ----- | > | ........ [ ] Want ........... |
| Member 3 ................................................. Pass | . | ........ [ ] Pass .......... |
| Member 4 ................................................. Need |
| Member 5 ................................................. Need |
| Member 6 ................................................. Pass |
| Member 7 ................................................. Want |
| Member 8 ................................................. Pass |


Need = Priority Pool, for those who can actually utilize the item, now.
Want = Fallback Pool, If any lot in Need, this pool will act as a reserve lot. A final tally would then give the option to pass item along to highest lot in Want, or second highest in the even no Need lots were made.
Pass = Obviously, not lotting on item/instant lose lot.

This would be made interesting with a roulette wheel appearing on screen for all to see on an item. This wouldn't be very difficult considering this game is almost entirely server-side based.

In the case you already have the item, Pass will be auto selected, depending on whether or not it is u/u. If it's not, Highlighted options would be Want and Pass.

[Alkoun]

Here's what I would like to see for lotting options. Before I get started, we all know this is just wishful thinking, but thought I'd share anyhow.

_______________Common Pool__________________ ____Lotting Option____
| Member 1 ................................................. Want | . | ........ [ ] Need ........... |
| Member 2 ................................................. ----- | > | ........ [ ] Want ........... |
| Member 3 ................................................. Pass | . | ........ [ ] Pass .......... |
| Member 4 ................................................. Need |
| Member 5 ................................................. Need |
| Member 6 ................................................. Pass |
| Member 7 ................................................. Want |
| Member 8 ................................................. Pass |


Need = Priority Pool, for those who can actually utilize the item, now.
Want = Fallback Pool, If any lot in Need, this pool will act as a reserve lot. A final tally would then give the option to pass item along to highest lot in Want, or second highest in the even no Need lots were made.
Pass = Obviously, not lotting on item/instant lose lot.

This would be made interesting with a roulette wheel appearing on screen for all to see on an item. This wouldn't be very difficult considering this game is almost entirely server-side based.

In the case you already have the item, Pass will be auto selected, depending on whether or not it is u/u. If it's not, Highlighted options would be Want and Pass.

Isn't this essentially the need/greed system WoW uses?
Which, btw, I am 110,000% in favor of FFXIV using...

[DrekeLamorte]

Wouldn't know, played WoW for a whole 4 weeks back before BC. I would love more things utilizing a need/want mentality. Of course you'll still have to deal with extra greedy people, but that's what LS and Companies are for. To be a part of a community where you can trust the other members that completed the even with you not to be d-bags and just lots on everything.