Instant-gratification, and the "Time Sink Here, Time Sink There" song. VERY LONG

[CepheiMordred]

To be fair, the whole point of the thread is to say that casuals are full of themselves to want it to be any easier, so I'm not saying anything they haven't said about us.

And my whole point is that I do want constructive discussion, which can't be had as long as they keep with that attitude as well.

So we are sort of in agreement, but don't put this on me, okay?

[TheVedis]

To be fair, the whole point of the thread is to say that casuals are full of themselves to want it to be any easier, so I'm not saying anything they haven't said about us.

And my whole point is that I do want constructive discussion, which can't be had as long as they keep with that attitude as well.

So we are sort of in agreement, but don't put this on me, okay?

its both sides though

im about as hardcore as you can get, but i dont want the game to be catered to me.

both sides are pretty bad when it comes to the opinions the game is all about them and everything should be for them

[Bahn]

Your post is hardly ever constructive - and that "lolcasuals" mentality that you have is the reason why FFXIV will remain a niche and unsuccessful game.

On top of that, you speak from a position that people want instant gratification. This is hardly the case. We want slightly higher droprates, not 100% droprates - speaking from positions of extremes make you no better than a sensationalist political columnist.

Just because people are asking for things to be a bit more tolerable does not mean that they want instant gratification in their games. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and your tiny elitist group of "hardcore" players.

[weeble]

Your post is hardly ever constructive - and that "lolcasuals" mentality that you have is the reason why FFXIV will remain a niche and unsuccessful game.

On top of that, you speak from a position that people want instant gratification. This is hardly the case. We want slightly higher droprates, not 100% droprates - speaking from positions of extremes make you no better than a sensationalist political columnist.

Just because people are asking for things to be a bit more tolerable does not mean that they want instant gratification in their games. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and your tiny elitist group of "hardcore" players.

yeah but they are going to make the one thing that probably gave players hope for 2.0 easier. the nm's prior to moogle fight had everything you kinda expect from a mmo after playing ffxi. challenging fun, party play with lots of nm's that took really a day for people to do. why dumb them down? people actually complained that it was too hard and ...lol so they are going to make it easier. it's a lot more then about drop rates. only good reason to listen and make it easier is server population ...hopefully it was the only reason and not a sign to what is coming in a year.

[Ilean]

people actually complained that it was too hard and ...lol so they are going to make it easier

Hard?

Nope. I see people complain mostly of two things:

1) The time it takes to get rewards from certain content greatly exceeds the point where doing said content is still fun and enjoyable.

2) SE doesn't take into account the fact that most of the players will take the path of least resistance when faced with a challenge. This results in class stacking (lack of) strategies being used and a good number of players having to choose between either leveling a job they don't care for all the way to level 50 or not doing those fights at all.

I just don't remember seeing many (any?) plainly "this is too hard" complaints.

[lenn1]

One of the reasons why WoW was successful was because casuals got some kind of reward for their work. Was it the best gear in the game? not even close. To get the best gear you had to work your ass off for weeks or months doing heroic raids and you still had a somewhat small drop rate on your gear. I know a lot of people in here won't like this but the legendary weapons in WoW were a lot harder to get than the ones in FF11. If you don't agree you probably haven't played both games like i have.

I think the problem with Ifrit is that casuals aren't getting anything for their work and they are forced to turn hardcore just to get something.

[Lyndis]

I hate to be blunt, but the truth is not everyone is born equal. I can handle it. I'm not the best at everything in the world. Can you handle it?

I'm not trying to be mean. The differences in people are what make life exciting. Lets not encourage the developers into making a game that attempts to make all people the same. Lets let them know the best MMO in the world would exploit these differences.

[Big-Beach]

Interesting post. ^^ Square has been making video games for a while and I'm sure a lot concerns are taken into account when they make their decisions, such as the drop rate for rare or semi-rare gear. A team of people design the primal fights from start to finish and I'm certain they would have tried to make it fair - at least, according to their calculations. The primal quests are a challenge and also a gamble. You are guaranteed a repeatable quest, some dark matter and coin upon successful completion. We know that weapons drop from the primal fights but there are no promises. Casual or not, by undertaking the primal fight you are offering to devote a chunk of your time in return for what is guaranteed and gamble for rare weapon drops. Not everyone wins when they gamble - some never win at all. Is it unfortunate that there are those who have no weapons even after a few hundred fights? Sure it is; however the next opportunity is always just a few key items away. This is not about hardcore or casual play. Any player who goes into a gamble expecting a certain outcome simply because that outcome exists as a slim possibility is playing with illusions. If nobody was getting weapons then yes, that would be a great cause for concern. Just because you or someone you know does not have a weapon from a primal fight does not mean the system is biased or unfair.

I understand that most players probably do want to get a rare weapon and have worked hard at it. Time and effort spent at attempts that result in no drops is frustrating but means little in a gamble. Yet the expectation seems to be there. The Grand Company items are examples of guaranteed rewards that people deserve with time and effort. The rare weapon drops in a primal fight, for better or worse, are not.

But we pay for this game, you say. We put in the time. We tolerate the shortcomings. We deserve a weapon! We are deserving.

For the primal fights, perhaps, such things do not (and should not?) matter.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I don't understand why people are comparing the Primal Weapons to any Legendary Weapons from any MMO, like in my last post they are hardly at that level (especially when Materia'd weapons are stronger than them. So the main point here should be: why are they so /random to obtain when they--comparatively--are not even the best of the best?

Honestly I wouldn't be against the idea of a "smart" reward drop list. Leave the rates as they are, but instead of being able to obtain multiple of the same weapon (since you cannot really obtain them again) have them ruled out of your potential drop list. Here is an example (Disclaimer: Percents are merely for demonstrative purposes and are not factual)

Player with no Ifrit Weapons:
7% LNC weapon
7% GLD weapon
7% ARC weapon
7% MRD weapon
7% PUG weapon
7% THM weapon
7% CNJ weapon
7% Totem
44% No drop

End of fight the player gets a CNJ weapon.
Next fight, player gets the win

7% LNC weapon
7% GLD weapon
7% ARC weapon
7% MRD weapon
7% PUG weapon
7% THM weapon
7% CNJ weapon RANDOM weapon not in inventory
7% Totem
44% No drop

Player obtains the THM weapon
Next fight next win

7% LNC weapon
7% GLD weapon
7% ARC weapon
7% MRD weapon
7% PUG weapon
7% THM weapon RANDOM weapon not in inventory
7% CNJ weapon RANDOM weapon not in inventory
7% Totem
44% No drop

So on and so forth, this way at least you would be making some kind of progress. Yes it does mean you would need to hold onto your weapons that you might not ever use, but at least it marks some kind of progress; it also leaves in the hardcore = random element that so many people don't want to lose, as you would have a 44% chance to get nothing, but at least IF you were to get something it wouldn't be something you already have.

[Firon]

I agree with that omega but ifrit weps are better than materia weps by far. atleast for melee