One other product

[frostmagemari]

To start no they didn't until they were revealed. Secondly they never promised us they would be more than one gender. Ever. They're incomplete to you but at no point did SE say they aren't being put forth as intended. Your opinion is fine and all but you're rewirting history here to suit your needs.

Sorry, it's not rewriting history to say they promised us Viera and Hrothgar when they put them on the shadowbringers page and say "these are the new races and they come in this combo"; they're releasing unfinished races though because only via the effort of the Dev team doing something that Yoshi did not tell them to do (and they did behind his back) do the two races have the ability to wear tiny wire frames on their face.

A more accurate analogy would be the store is trying to sell you a couch but you really want the couch /and/ a matching loveseat. To you the set isn't complete without that loveseat, but the store never intended to make one to begin with. Yet once you pointed out this issue the store took your request in mind and saw the sales potential for expanding the one item into a set and is now looking into providing both at a later date.

No, that's not a more accurate analogy. It would be if i was talking about the male/female absence, but i'm not. I am speaking of a feature that EVERY OTHER RACE has, and that is the ability of to wear and display headgear. So yes, the "we shoved a wooden block to replace a missing leg" is an apt analogy for a race missing the feature to display any headgear but glasses (which as i said, is only there because Yoshi's staff didn't listen to him).

But that's not the situation we're in.
We're getting a full product. You seem to think we're getting two half products.
Nobody complained about Miqo'te and Roegadyn being genderlocked in 1.0. Even when there was a female Roegadyn ingame readily available. They were still a full product, even if something was added later.

Read what i'm actually saying, not what you're pretending i'm saying please. I'm not complaining about the sexes. I'm pointing out that every race in the game can display all kinds of headgear, but Yoshi decided it would've been too hard to make existing headgear fit them, so they don't get to have it.

[Enla]

Sorry, it's not rewriting history to say they promised us Viera and Hrothgar when they put them on the shadowbringers page and say "these are the new races and they come in this combo"; they're releasing unfinished races though because only via the effort of the Dev team doing something that Yoshi did not tell them to do (and they did behind his back) do the two races have the ability to wear tiny wire frames on their face.


No, that's not a more accurate analogy. It would be if i was talking about the male/female absence, but i'm not. I am speaking of a feature that EVERY OTHER RACE has, and that is the ability of to wear and display headgear. So yes, the "we shoved a wooden block to replace a missing leg" is an apt analogy for a race missing the feature to display any headgear but glasses (which as i said, is only there because Yoshi's staff didn't listen to him).


Read what i'm actually saying, not what you're pretending i'm saying please. I'm not complaining about the sexes. I'm pointing out that every race in the game can display all kinds of headgear, but Yoshi decided it would've been too hard to make existing headgear fit them, so they don't get to have it.

When they were announced at fanfest they were never said to be incomplete, nor did they claim a second gender was forthcoming for either. When Hrothgar were released specifically they mentioned the gender locking outright for them and made it clear for Viera as well. Do you want me to get you the fanfest slides the community generously compiled with every big piece of news or the twitch vod? Because this is all documented. Their blurb on the site came /after/ all of this. So, yes, you are rewriting history.

Also the headgear thing was literally solved this week. It's in the Letter from the Producer. Did you not read it?

[Canadane]

Read what i'm actually saying, not what you're pretending i'm saying please. I'm not complaining about the sexes. I'm pointing out that every race in the game can display all kinds of headgear, but Yoshi decided it would've been too hard to make existing headgear fit them, so they don't get to have it.

Alright fair enough, but exception was made for these species due to the uniqueness of their heads.
And as is stands, there still is exclusion to some headgear pieces. We're getting what we were promised. Just because other races can wear pieces of gear, doesn't mean much when you have a vastly different facial structure. In exchange for the helms and such, we get different facial options.
For the exceptions to the exclusion, Japanese work ethics demanded that they do this, it wasn't some surprise present from the gear design team.

Maybe if this was 1.0 we'd get unique and fitting pieces of gear, without clipping in fact. But one of the fundamental changes to the game, announced so many years ago while 2.0 was in development, was the streamlining of gear. Every player back then was informed of exactly how their gear design philosophy was changing. Most pieces are made to fit one race then simply scaled to the others, rather than uniquely fitting the body shape of each race. (This is also what killed off the Miqo'te butts, sad times).

Sometimes you just need to accept things can be different without being less of value.

[savageink]

I really have no problem with "The Emperor's Headgear" I usually turn off non- glasses head gear anyway. And it isn't a game breaker in any sense of the word. Aaaaand they told us in advance. So, meh.

[frostmagemari]

When they were announced at fanfest they were never said to be incomplete, nor did they claim a second gender was forthcoming for either. When Hrothgar were released specifically they mentioned the gender locking outright for them and made it clear for Viera as well. Do you want me to get you the fanfest slides the community generously compiled with every big piece of news or the twitch vod? Because this is all documented. The site came /after/ all of this. So, yes, you are rewriting history.

Okay. I will tell you one. more. time. I. do. not. care. about. the. gender. lock. That. is. not. what. i'm. talking. about.

Also the headgear thing was literally solved this week. It's in the Letter from the Producer. Did you not read it?

I did. Did you? I don't think you did.
What the dev team did, was they IGNORED YOSHI and what he said regarding headgear and made it that GLASSES could be worn. (he said he never knew, and i'll at least assume he's being honest)
Not helmets, not hats, not face guards, not anything but glasses. If you read what i said and didn't try to argue against things i never said, this might be productive.

[frostmagemari]

Alright fair enough, but exception was made for these species due to the uniqueness of their heads.
And as is stands, there still is exclusion to some headgear pieces. We're getting what we were promised. Just because other races can wear pieces of gear, doesn't mean much when you have a vastly different facial structure. In exchange for the helms and such, we get different facial options.
For the exceptions to the exclusion, Japanese work ethics demanded that they do this, it wasn't some surprise present from the gear design team.

Maybe if this was 1.0 we'd get unique and fitting pieces of gear, without clipping in fact. But one of the fundamental changes to the game, announced so many years ago while 2.0 was in development, was the streamlining of gear. Every player back then was informed of exactly how their gear design philosophy was changing. Most pieces are made to fit one race then simply scaled to the others, rather than uniquely fitting the body shape of each race. (This is also what killed off the Miqo'te butts, sad times).

Sometimes you just need to accept things can be different without being less of value.

I guess the question becomes then.. where's the limit? How far are they allowed to go with the "it's easier to not do something than actually do something" mentality before people are allowed to criticize them?

[Reinfeld]

So you would go to a furniture store, buy a bed frame and when it is missing a leg and the manager told you that "We could have reordered the piece, but that would have been too much work.. but one of the stock boys found a hunk of wood to put under it", you would pay full price for the item? Or would you think that you should have the same quality of item as the customer who purchased another bed at full price and it didn't have a missing piece?

In this case it's more like you went to a custom furniture store and they told you they were expanding their inventory of tables, but that the new model wouldn't have the option to add an inlay.

[linay]

Could you think of another service or item you would purchase if the store or salesman told you "It's not actually finished, because that would've been too hard; but we worked on our own time to get something done." and still insisted on charging you full price for the item?

The full price is based on the original plan of having no visible head gear. This is just extra. The idea of "it's not finished" doesn't really work here because they decide what they will do given the time they set and charge you for it. If you don't think what they're offering is not worth the cost they're charging, then feel free not to buy it, but it's not a case of charging full price for an "unfinished" product. It's finished according to their schedule, and that includes any change they make throughout the expansion.

[Hash_Browns]

I guess the question becomes then.. where's the limit? How far are they allowed to go with the "it's easier to not do something than actually do something" mentality?

Ah yes.. hit us with that slippery slope fallacy.

[savageink]

I guess the question becomes then.. where's the limit? How far are they allowed to go with the "it's easier to not do something than actually do something" mentality?

Raids? Dungeons? Hildebrand? Relics? ......Belts. You used to be able to change your belt. Now I'd love to have a big ol elvis belt buckle, but they don't do belts anymore. MMOs always have content that isn't finished at expansion launch. Adding headgear for the new races doesn't seem to be in the same category as abandoning belts completely. Plus he never said they only did glasses. But if they did it's better than the original expectation of none, or belts.