New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[SerLuke]

So to clarify things, what you guys are asking for is either free jump potions or some free option in game to flag the MSQ as complete for dungeon/trial/raid content purposes?

[Physic]

Yes it does mater, the way the story interconnects is super important to a lot of us, what you are basically asking for is a WOW clone.

what exactly is an example of what you are talking about here? the way the story connects would be unchanged?


if you are talking about crystal labyrinth requiring you to finish ARR. That would be unchanged. People who use scenario skip get credit for beating

The_Ultimate_Weapon, they would have to go follow the sidequest chain themselves like everyone else.

the thing you have to realize, is nothing would be changing, this functionality already exists in game. they can move a player forward in msq already, flagging whatever they need to flag.

what situation are you trying to avoid? People who dont want to skip, dont use the skip option, they experience the game exactly like it is now, people who use the skip experience the game exactly as if they ignored all side quests and completed msq up to whatever story point the skip goes up to. There is no weird interaction.

[SerLuke]

So how about these two conditions as proposal for a compromise,

1. by default MSQ stays as it is, by default one needs to go through the MSQ and finish the final MSQ trial to get to end game content, if a player does not want this they have an option described in number 2.

2. There is an NPC that can be talked to that would allow the MSQ to be marked as completed for purposes of unlocking content, the player will have to go through a couple warning screens saying this option will impede their enjoyment of the story in certain quests. This option would also allow them to go through the MSQ at their own pace but like I said some of the cut scenes from endgame content might spoil the story if they aren't skipping cut scenes/

Would this be a fair compromise?

[Physic]

So to clarify things, what you guys are asking for is either free jump potions or some free option in game to flag the MSQ as complete for dungeon/trial/raid content purposes?

basically,

player 1) goes and does msq normally, same exact experience as today

player 2)goes to some npc, or mogstation and uses some item, functionally it would be like an option to use a skip potion to one of the major story break points, combined with forth coming new game plus, players could go back and experience the story on their own terms if they wish.


they wouldnt change anything about future design, past design or such. people who arent looking for it, wont do it.

So how about these two conditions as proposal for a compromise,

1. by default MSQ stays as it is, by default one needs to go through the MSQ and finish the final MSQ trial to get to end game content, if a player does not want this they have an option described in number 2.

2. There is an NPC that can be talked to that would allow the MSQ to be marked as completed for purposes of unlocking content, the player will have to go through a couple warning screens saying this option will impede their enjoyment of the story in certain quests. This option would also allow them to go through the MSQ at their own pace but like I said some of the cut scenes from endgame content might spoil the story if they aren't skipping cut scenes/

Would this be a fair compromise?

yup thats exactly what i'm talking about.

they could refine it slightly by adding a short summary if they wanted to, but thats basically the idea

[PyurBlue]

I think they mean that you can accidentally do a side quest that previously required MSQ to unlock. Think of something like doing Omega raids before doing HW 3.5 MSQ.

This makes it easier to understand the concern over the MSQ, but there is more than one way to remove the story quest prerequisites. I don't envision anything that will force players to progress through the game differently. One simple example might be to add an option on character creation to choose to play in MSQ mode (what we have now) or free mode. More options can be added to provide more choices to player.

So to clarify things, what you guys are asking for is either free jump potions or some free option in game to flag the MSQ as complete for dungeon/trial/raid content purposes?

I don't have anything specific in mind but I don't want to change the experience for players that like the game as it is now. Being able to choose a point in the MSQ to skip to is one way of doing it and by making it a player choice, people can decide if they want to play FF14 as you would now, or not.

[SerLuke]

yup thats exactly what i'm talking about.

they could refine it slightly by adding a short summary if they wanted to, but thats basically the idea

In that case I'm fine with it as long as the current story structure remains the same format going forward by default, they want to give people an option to bypass that, that's fine as long as not the default and its not something I or someone else can easily enable by talking to the wrong NPC or something.

[Shougun]

So to clarify things, what you guys are asking for is either free jump potions or some free option in game to flag the MSQ as complete for dungeon/trial/raid content purposes?

If you're talking to me then no because I don't think the potion puts enough burs into the beginning, but some may see what I want as a potion with a lot of extra things added to it I guess. The story part of the new start would be complete-able by us all without any sort of one off thing (quest rewards related to the /intro/ story included), but the "potion part" (level/gear/gil) would be limited to once free (part of some expansions that come with these new start quest chains).

So in other words am I asking for specifically a free skip potion - no, but something that has an element of that.. sort of yes. Like if I was asking for a mini van and you bring me a motorcycle. Yes I wanted a vehicle but there is still quite an important distinction, I think lol. I wanted more to be carried in that event than just a potion alone will do, as I think alone I have concerns but with some extra 'passengers'.. I think its okay.

So how about these two conditions as proposal for a compromise,

1. by default MSQ stays as it is, by default one needs to go through the MSQ and finish the final MSQ trial to get to end game content, if a player does not want this they have an option described in number 2.

2. There is an NPC that can be talked to that would allow the MSQ to be marked as completed for purposes of unlocking content, the player will have to go through a couple warning screens saying this option will impede their enjoyment of the story in certain quests. This option would also allow them to go through the MSQ at their own pace but like I said some of the cut scenes from endgame content might spoil the story if they aren't skipping cut scenes/

Would this be a fair compromise?

1. Yes, I like the MSQ too (that each dungeon and content piece has something important about it), so I don't want to see it blended up. So far so great.

2. That's a generous change. I was hoping for a bit more bur/traction (allowing a new different intro of around ~2 hours + put you at the beginning of an expansion) but for people who are just not into it at all that'd be probably the favorite option lol (just talk to an NPC and be like "yes sir, I did it.. totes" *crosses fingers* lol), so you'd certainly calm a number of people with that.

Also.. Otter where :O..? They brought a lot of levity .

In my FC

Adorable! Thanks, my piggy passed recently so the cuteness is nice.

[SerLuke]

Also.. Otter where :O..? They brought a lot of levity .

In my FC

[Melichoir]

So how about these two conditions as proposal for a compromise,

1. by default MSQ stays as it is, by default one needs to go through the MSQ and finish the final MSQ trial to get to end game content, if a player does not want this they have an option described in number 2.

2. There is an NPC that can be talked to that would allow the MSQ to be marked as completed for purposes of unlocking content, the player will have to go through a couple warning screens saying this option will impede their enjoyment of the story in certain quests. This option would also allow them to go through the MSQ at their own pace but like I said some of the cut scenes from endgame content might spoil the story if they aren't skipping cut scenes/

Would this be a fair compromise?

The option would be turning the MSQ into a glorified side quest. At that point, the only reason you have access to anything is based on level alone. Which brings up the other issue : If your lvl 20 and do this, now you have access to all content, but youre still not high enough level to do most of it (you cant queue for Shinryu as a level 20, for example). So players can now not do the MSQ but woulds till be forced to do it more or less if they want to level efficiently (MSQ is about the most efficient leveling process due to its exp values.) So it doesnt solve anything for a new player. Theyre still stuck in low level content andw ill end up doing the MSQ anyways for practical reasons. The place where this becomes useful is in 2.1.

Also, what about if they only want to skip certain MSQ? So they want to play HW MSQ, but nto ARR. Are they allowed to pick any MSQ? Or do they have to go through the steps? If they can choose what they do, can they just do every single quest in reverse order for funsies? How does this separate FFXIV from WoW, where they built in you can skip content as long as your level is high enough.

Furthermore, while on paper this shouldnt be a problem, what I personally forsee is how itll become standard practice rather than an exception. New players will be told by veterans "use hte MSQ skip so you can do end game." I say this because this trend is pretty much in every MMO where the story isnt core. This then shifts the focus on FFXIV away from MSQ to completing current end game content, and trains new players that if they dont like something, just skip it. The game would explicitly be teaching this, and would in the end be reinforced by the community at large over time. This would lead to, as I see it, many of the issues WoW has such as rampant elitism, entitlement, less player cohesion and greater toxicity, as the focus of purpose in the game moves towards End game content.

Just because people ask for something doesnt mean its healthy for hte game. I personally think making the entire MSQ optional (a glorified side quest) would end up hurting the game as over time this would be the go to option for most players, and not a side option for the few who dont care.

[Physic]

The option would be turning the MSQ into a glorified side quest. At that point, the only reason you have access to anything is based on level alone. Which brings up the other issue : If your lvl 20 and do this, now you have access to all content, but youre still not high enough level to do most of it (you cant queue for Shinryu as a level 20, for example). So players can now not do the MSQ but woulds till be forced to do it more or less if they want to level efficiently (MSQ is about the most efficient leveling process due to its exp values.) So it doesnt solve anything for a new player. Theyre still stuck in low level content andw ill end up doing the MSQ anyways for practical reasons. The place where this becomes useful is in 2.1.

Also, what about if they only want to skip certain MSQ? So they want to play HW MSQ, but nto ARR. Are they allowed to pick any MSQ? Or do they have to go through the steps? If they can choose what they do, can they just do every single quest in reverse order for funsies? How does this separate FFXIV from WoW, where they built in you can skip content as long as your level is high enough.

Furthermore, while on paper this shouldnt be a problem, what I personally forsee is how itll become standard practice rather than an exception. New players will be told by veterans "use hte MSQ skip so you can do end game." I say this because this trend is pretty much in every MMO where the story isnt core. This then shifts the focus on FFXIV away from MSQ to completing current end game content, and trains new players that if they dont like something, just skip it. The game would explicitly be teaching this, and would in the end be reinforced by the community at large over time. This would lead to, as I see it, many of the issues WoW has such as rampant elitism, entitlement, less player cohesion and greater toxicity, as the focus of purpose in the game moves towards End game content.

Just because people ask for something doesnt mean its healthy for hte game. I personally think making the entire MSQ optional (a glorified side quest) would end up hurting the game as over time this would be the go to option for most players, and not a side option for the few who dont care.

people will still be able to do it when they want a break from grinding. I honestly think when its not holding them back from content, many more people will take time with it, and do it when they feel like story.

msq is not the most effecient leveling, but it is very good for the the amount of effort it requires.

doing dungeons close to your actual level, potd, etc are better


as far people being forced, no not really. The ones who ignore and grind, will be the ones who didnt want to do msq



as far as skipping, id assume theyd have 6 major points with new game plus.
arr, post arr, heavensward, post heavensward, stormblood, post stormblood.

as to how would it be different than WOW? uhh i dont think what defines how ffxiv is different from wow is content locks.

msq is not preventing elitism, toxicity, entitlement and rushers, its just requiring those people to do msq. There is nothing about msq which changes those things

And how is someone saying use msq skip different than telling some one to skip every dialog and cutscene? They can choose how they prefer to progress, through story, or through adventure, or a mix.