New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[VirusOnline]

The option would be turning the MSQ into a glorified side quest. At that point, the only reason you have access to anything is based on level alone. Which brings up the other issue : If your lvl 20 and do this, now you have access to all content, but youre still not high enough level to do most of it (you cant queue for Shinryu as a level 20, for example). So players can now not do the MSQ but woulds till be forced to do it more or less if they want to level efficiently (MSQ is about the most efficient leveling process due to its exp values.) So it doesnt solve anything for a new player. Theyre still stuck in low level content andw ill end up doing the MSQ anyways for practical reasons. The place where this becomes useful is in 2.1.

Also, what about if they only want to skip certain MSQ? So they want to play HW MSQ, but nto ARR. Are they allowed to pick any MSQ? Or do they have to go through the steps? If they can choose what they do, can they just do every single quest in reverse order for funsies? How does this separate FFXIV from WoW, where they built in you can skip content as long as your level is high enough.

Furthermore, while on paper this shouldnt be a problem, what I personally forsee is how itll become standard practice rather than an exception. New players will be told by veterans "use hte MSQ skip so you can do end game." I say this because this trend is pretty much in every MMO where the story isnt core. This then shifts the focus on FFXIV away from MSQ to completing current end game content, and trains new players that if they dont like something, just skip it. The game would explicitly be teaching this, and would in the end be reinforced by the community at large over time. This would lead to, as I see it, many of the issues WoW has such as rampant elitism, entitlement, less player cohesion and greater toxicity, as the focus of purpose in the game moves towards End game content.

Just because people ask for something doesnt mean its healthy for hte game. I personally think making the entire MSQ optional (a glorified side quest) would end up hurting the game as over time this would be the go to option for most players, and not a side option for the few who dont care.

What people don't realize is that the MSQ creates not just story, lore, and a guide -> it creates gameplay pacing in all aspects of the game. WoW lacks this immensely and it exactly what separates FFXIV from it. Everything you describe after what I bolded is exactly how WoW fell so low. Replace with 'skip to msq' in FFXIV to 'get your heirloom gear and spam dungeons' in WoW and that's the point we arrive at. Zero guidance, zero pacing.

[SerLuke]

Just because people ask for something doesnt mean its healthy for hte game. I personally think making the entire MSQ optional (a glorified side quest) would end up hurting the game as over time this would be the go to option for most players, and not a side option for the few who dont care.

I don’t disagree I’m just saying if something like this did happen I would prefer it happen in a way where the MSQ experience would be intact while others can essentially have a glorified skip potion.

[GrindShack]

A long while back, about hmm lets see 2009 maybe, while playing FFXI, we had a player in our LS named Strawberry, she was the GF of another member. She didn't like the leveling scene in the game, thus her BF lV'd her Character up by dual boxing her toon. once she was lv 75 (Max lv on FFXI forever) she decided that she wanted to start raiding with us. Strawberry was playing a WHM/SMN, and I use the term playing loosely as she never actually played before. Now this Max LV noob is our healer in endgame content.... After numerous TPK's, she in effect created a server wide inside joke. People who were shit, just couldn't learn their jobs, or bought accounts, would be referred to as a Strawberry. This is what I think about anyone who skips Story or buys a level 60 off the market. you are a Strawberry through and through.

TLDR Don't be a Strawberry

[Melichoir]

I don’t disagree I’m just saying if something like this did happen I would prefer it happen in a way where the MSQ experience would be intact while others can essentially have a glorified skip potion.

The problem utlimately still becomes the same issue: If you introduce this option, it will (over time) become standard practice among starting players and will be actively encouraged by older players to do so. Let me point this out, A lot of people migrate here and start FFXIV based on word of mouth by friends (either online or RL). Rather than having veteran players 'help' out newer players through dungeons and encouraging them to progress, theyll be told "Just skip MSQ. Its all story, and hurry to max level so we can play together." The misguided notion here would be that you cant play together with a lower level player. Yes the MSQ is solo, but the game isnt. You can run dungeons with them, encourage them to explore the game, help them secure an FC and build a community. That gets thrown out the window with an MSQ skip because then its "Dont enjoy teh story,just hurry up to max level so we can play together. Ill just speed you through POTD to max your level."

This is why I dont want to change things, or at the least, if you want to skip it, there should be a deterrent to it. The option is available currently. It is there. But its not cheap, so only the most determined to skip and rush will do so. This prevents it from being standard practice and keeps the core of the game still focused on MSQ and not end content.

[Alucard135]

A long while back, about hmm lets see 2009 maybe, while playing FFXI, we had a player in our LS named Strawberry, she was the GF of another member. She didn't like the leveling scene in the game, thus her BF lV'd her Character up by dual boxing her toon. once she was lv 75 (Max lv on FFXI forever) she decided that she wanted to start raiding with us. Strawberry was playing a WHM/SMN, and I use the term playing loosely as she never actually played before. Now this Max LV noob is our healer in endgame content.... After numerous TPK's, she in effect created a server wide inside joke. People who were shit, just couldn't learn their jobs, or bought accounts, would be referred to as a Strawberry. This is what I think about anyone who skips Story or buys a level 60 off the market. you are a Strawberry through and through.

TLDR Don't be a Strawberry

I wouldn't say skipping MSQ would make someone a terrible player, since it doesn't level you up at all. A level boost on the other hand is a different story. There are already Strawberries in level 70 content and they expect mentors to to cover up for them.

[GrindShack]

I wouldn't say skipping MSQ would make someone a terrible player, since it doesn't level you up at all. A level boost on the other hand is a different story. There are already Strawberries in level 70 content and they expect mentors to to cover up for them.

My issue with story skip is not necessarily that a player is or can be bad because of it, it is that they actually accomplished nothing on their own.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Im sorry but I'm still reading this as MSQ being an insurmountable task. Or like, an unfair trial to start a game at the begining. That's just... The game is not going to change just because players decided to piss off for a few expansions. Whoever commented about game pacing is right on the money. I mean, what next? Let's take out Grand Companies because it blocks access to housing and the one companion we get. Unfair to have to do stuff to unlock stuff. Buuu.

[linay]

...Isn't that basically his point, that ARR, HW, and SB, etc. combined are too big at this point to feel like a single game (or, to leave you time to feel like you're really investing in any one of the expansions)?

My point is that it's still a single game regardless of how big the game may feel. It is a game that is expanded over time, not separate games. As for time invested, that's up to the individual player. You can take your time in each expansion or catch up to the MSQ in current expansion and then go back to do anything you skipped, but regardless, playing the game means playing the MSQ, just like playing FFVII means playing through the story rather than just grinding exp to max level then enter a fight with the Weapons.

[Physic]

The problem utlimately still becomes the same issue: If you introduce this option, it will (over time) become standard practice among starting players and will be actively encouraged by older players to do so. Let me point this out, A lot of people migrate here and start FFXIV based on word of mouth by friends (either online or RL). Rather than having veteran players 'help' out newer players through dungeons and encouraging them to progress, theyll be told "Just skip MSQ. Its all story, and hurry to max level so we can play together." The misguided notion here would be that you cant play together with a lower level player. Yes the MSQ is solo, but the game isnt. You can run dungeons with them, encourage them to explore the game, help them secure an FC and build a community. That gets thrown out the window with an MSQ skip because then its "Dont enjoy teh story,just hurry up to max level so we can play together. Ill just speed you through POTD to max your level."

This is why I dont want to change things, or at the least, if you want to skip it, there should be a deterrent to it. The option is available currently. It is there. But its not cheap, so only the most determined to skip and rush will do so. This prevents it from being standard practice and keeps the core of the game still focused on MSQ and not end content.

the core of the game is not focused on msq. You do msq a lot when you start, and rarely after that. People who play this game consistently tend to spend most of their leveling jobs, gear hunting, progression, dungeons/raids and glamour.

whether msq is locked or not, friends will need to help them through dungeons, as thats where most gear/exp is.


running dungeons and doing other things with new players doesnt make sense, because msq is the limiter on progress. They beat satasha and get their gear, cool, lets try the next dungeon! oh, well you have to do your msq first. The more they play with you, the more overlevel they become, the more msq becomes the only thing they should do. Oh man, i'm level 30, but im level 20 msq, you can only go to level 19 dungeons, no chocobo, no grand company, cant do your job quest.

it just doesnt actually line up, if you ever play with a newbie, you end up telling them just do msq. The solo activity shouldnt be gating group play as much as it does. It causes people to rush it more.

If msq is satisfying a player, they will do it, as long as it gives exp, and items.

[linay]

however, after looking at their store, i guess they wont do it. It actually says that its targeting new players who are daunted for the exact reasons

so basically they understand the flaws their system creates, and are selling the answer. I feel thats kind of ehhh for a game with a box price and a subscription fee, but oh well.

That's not them saying it's a flaw in their game. It's them simply saying that the game is big. Otherwise, leveling would also be a flaw because they also have jump potion for leveling too.