They should add a Weekly Savage Content Roullete

[Penthea]

Are you saying there is a party composition that would fail an old duty when synced simply because of how much has changed with the jobs rather than player error? I don't think that's the case.

In order for an ex/savage roulette to work properly, the DF tool would need to be a lot stricter about what it allows into the group. Right now the DF tool just looks at what you have unlocked, ilvl (if applicable), class lvl and role. This is fine for normal mode content. It's really not fine for ex and savage because the demands of the fights are significantly higher.

Here are some examples why (bear in mind because it's a roulette, often it would be a pug situation in which you won't have the advantage of knowing your team mates well to overcome some of these):

• Having too much melee can seriously reduce the group's overall dps if the encounter requires running out of melee very frequently or has targets that spawn far away from melee.
  
• Not being able to take advantage of dps orientated buffs (piercing, ast cards, embolden, etc) because you could get any weird mixed pot of classes, also reduces the group's overall dps.
  
• Having no mch or brd means having no Refresh, which means healers have far less mana to play with. If the encounter has a lot of healing checks, it could be impossible to succeed without a Refresh.
  
• Doubling up on any class makes the lb bar build up slower.
  
• Having two schs can be a death sentence. Because their shields keep overwriting each other the group loses a lot of effective healing.
  
• Some encounters just don't suit some classes well. Imagine if you got two or three of that class known for under-performing in that encounter. Another dps loss.

And now add players who don't know what they're doing to the above and you have a perfect recipe for disaster.

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So yea as you can see even with good players the DF tool could really doom a group to far more difficulty than usual or just endless wiping because it put together a group no person in their right mind would ever make.

Sure SE could easily make the DF tool for that particular roulette much more strict, but that would make the queues longer. And it also won't do anything about bad players queuing and wasting everyone else's time.

[RareItems]

I think ppl didn't read the initial post entirely xD. The weekly savage/roullete will have a Pre-selected Raid or Extreme Trial for the week. So if it's Garuda Extreme, it will be Garuda Extreme for that entire week. If Its Alexander Floor 12 Savage then it will be Alexander Floor 12 for the entire week.

It will also start at 30% Echo buff and increase up to 50% Echo buff.

Since the Extreme/Savage raid is predetermined, anyone who's willing to do the roullete can just study the numerious guides on youtube before attempting it and win it. Not to mention the up to 50% echo buff and ilvl sync should help immensely xD.

[linay]

No Hyomin is saying that you can do the bare minimum to clear a dungeon, you can't do the bare minimum in Savage or Coils how SB has trimmed things in question with their new role actions and what classes have lost combined with the fact that people don't know how to play their jobs either its just a recipe for disaster.

In order for an ex/savage roulette to work properly, the DF tool would need to be a lot stricter about what it allows into the group. Right now the DF tool just looks at what you have unlocked, ilvl (if applicable), class lvl and role. This is fine for normal mode content. It's really not fine for ex and savage because the demands of the fights are significantly higher.

Here are some examples why (bear in mind because it's a roulette, often it would be a pug situation in which you won't have the advantage of knowing your team mates well to overcome some of these):

• Having too much melee can seriously reduce the group's overall dps if the encounter requires running out of melee very frequently or has targets that spawn far away from melee.
  
• Not being able to take advantage of dps orientated buffs (piercing, ast cards, embolden, etc) because you could get any weird mixed pot of classes, also reduces the group's overall dps.
  
• Having no mch or brd means having no Refresh, which means healers have far less mana to play with. If the encounter has a lot of healing checks, it could be impossible to succeed without a Refresh.
  
• Doubling up on any class makes the lb bar build up slower.
  
• Having two schs can be a death sentence. Because their shields keep overwriting each other the group loses a lot of effective healing.
  
• Some encounters just don't suit some classes well. Imagine if you got two or three of that class known for under-performing in that encounter. Another dps loss.

And now add players who don't know what they're doing to the above and you have a perfect recipe for disaster.

------

So yea as you can see even with good players the DF tool could really doom a group to far more difficulty than usual or just endless wiping because it put together a group no person in their right mind would ever make.

Sure SE could easily make the DF tool for that particular roulette much more strict, but that would make the queues longer. And it also won't do anything about bad players queuing and wasting everyone else's time.

You can already queue for those same contents now, so it's not like the game itself prevents you from doing them synced with a random party. If you get a bad party matchup, regardless of the reason, you will fail the duty, and that already exists with the roulettes we have now.

So it all comes down to this being a difficult content, which again, I've already acknowledged, so there's no need to repeat that or try to show why it would be more difficult. It's not a point of contention.

[Penthea]

You can already queue for those same contents now, so it's not like the game itself prevents you from doing them synced with a random party. If you get a bad party matchup, regardless of the reason, you will fail the duty, and that already exists with the roulettes we have now.

Yes you can but there is a good reason why so few people use the DF tool for ex and savage. It's far more advantageous and sensible, for several reasons, to use party finder.

[linay]

Yes you can but there is a good reason why so few people use the DF tool for ex and savage. It's far more advantageous and sensible, for several reasons, to use party finder.

Yes, as already acknowledged.

[HyoMinPark]

Are you saying there is a party composition that would fail an old duty when synced simply because of how much has changed with the jobs rather than player error? I don't think that's the case.

If there is any Coil floor that requires shielding of any kind in order to survive mechanics (I am not sure if this is the case nowadays, but it's not entirely outside of the realm of possibility), what would you do in a double WHM comp? They have no way to provide eHP because Stoneskin was removed at the start of Stormblood. Double SCH would also be a nightmare, and AST MP is abysmal at level 50 without feeding themselves every Ewer they get. The Roulette would have to guaratee certain things and I don't think the default Roulette algorithm is set up this way.

Penthea brought it up, but you also have to consider LB building. T13 requires you to use tank LB3 to survive Bahamut's ultimate. What are you going to do if you fail to reach that goal because LB builds slower now (due to either comp or steamrolling - old content suffers a lot with LB generation because of the latter)? I don't think there's anything in there that guarantees full LB bars in order to bypass this issue like some fights do - think Protto-Ultima in Dun Scaith: each Conductor you destroy gives one full bar so you can LB3 him after they're gone.


The main point of your argument seems to be "people can already do this" and "people already have to deal with neutered jobs in lower level content anyways" - but some lower level content barely requires a pulse to clear. Coil is not that kind of content - it's actually still challenging when you do it at level (I did some level 50 Coil with some people back when BLU first came out - ADS trucks and God that paralysis is annoying if people don't stun it).

There are also other considerations that I feel like you aren't making regarding some of the job changes and how they might affect they way content is done - especially content where utilizing your entire kit is required in order to do well.

I think ppl didn't read the initial post entirely xD. The weekly savage/roullete will have a Pre-selected Raid or Extreme Trial for the week. So if it's Garuda Extreme, it will be Garuda Extreme for that entire week. If Its Alexander Floor 12 Savage then it will be Alexander Floor 12 for the entire week.

It will also start at 30% Echo buff and increase up to 50% Echo buff.

Since the Extreme/Savage raid is predetermined, anyone who's willing to do the roullete can just study the numerious guides on youtube before attempting it and win it. Not to mention the up to 50% echo buff and ilvl sync should help immensely xD.

Then what is even the point of a "difficult contents Roulette" if you're going to put 50% Echo in there? Might as well do it unsynced at that point, imo.

[ForteNightshade]

I think ppl didn't read the initial post entirely xD. The weekly savage/roullete will have a Pre-selected Raid or Extreme Trial for the week. So if it's Garuda Extreme, it will be Garuda Extreme for that entire week. If Its Alexander Floor 12 Savage then it will be Alexander Floor 12 for the entire week.

It will also start at 30% Echo buff and increase up to 50% Echo buff.

Since the Extreme/Savage raid is predetermined, anyone who's willing to do the roullete can just study the numerious guides on youtube before attempting it and win it. Not to mention the up to 50% echo buff and ilvl sync should help immensely xD.

You do realize this defeats the entire point, yes? Just 15% echo makes current Alphascape laughable to any decent player. 50% would be an even higher equivalent of going into O1S with i400 gear—which I have done, by the way. Alte Roite died in three minutes. In fact, his Savage encounter is faster than normal mode. The power difference going from i310 to i400 is staggering.

As for the whole re-selection aspect. If it's anything difficult, no one will bother. Why would people queue into a roulette for tomestones and seals when simply running dungeons, hunts or Eureka would be significantly faster? NA/EU players have almost zero interest running hard content outside pre-mades.

[linay]

The main point of your argument seems to be "people can already do this" and "people already have to deal with neutered jobs in lower level content anyways" - but some lower level content barely requires a pulse to clear. Coil is not that kind of content - it's actually still challenging when you do it at level (I did some level 50 Coil with some people back when BLU first came out - ADS trucks and God that paralysis is annoying if people don't stun it).

There are also other considerations that I feel like you aren't making regarding some of the job changes and how they might affect they way content is done - especially content where utilizing your entire kit is required in order to do well.

I think you're not considering the fact that if they are going to be put into a specific roulette, that they will have to spend the balancing effort to make it work. It's not about taking current jobs as it is, but doing whatever is needed for a roulette to work, especially with changes that comes with a new expansion, assuming they are. Even if you use level 70 content as the roulette, it will still have the same problem one or two expansions later as they inevitably change the battle systems. So if they are putting difficult content in a roulette, might as well start with the first and make it work at least on the technical side.