A mentor kicked my dog!

[Penthea]

I get that some people only learn by doing. No one has been able to explain how a mentor is supposed to help those people who have to experience a fight and don't remember written instructions and ability names.

If you don't learn by being told what to do, then a mentor is unable to help you and it's not unreasonable for them to leave after a few tries.

This doesn't rule out learn by doing. You can still give some quick helpful tips like "stay away from people when you have the red marker" instead of just saying nothing. People who learn best through practical means aren't incapable of understanding tips.

It seems like a fair assumption that if you learn by being told what to do, you would best learn by looking up guides with audio/text/visual instructions just before queuing up.

The great thing about guides is they say everything that happens. But it also means that the viewer/reader sometimes gets too much information, which means it can be more difficult to retain it. For example detailed info about tank swap mechanics are pretty much irrelevant to a dps. At most they would need to know a tank swap exists. Not the intimate reasons for them. If a mechanic affects only a dps that does something like teleport them to another area and they have to do something specific, well that potentially changes nothing about what tanks and healers need to do. Depending on the fight, having to dissect guides to pick out the things that matter to you can take quite a while.

Some guides split things up by role and only inform what that role needs to do in each section, but most I have come across don't. It's especially difficult to deal with an overload of information with a video because you can't really skim through it to find out what -you- need to do like you can with a body of text.

Sometimes guides over-complicate things as well. They might give a tremendous amount of detail as to why someone needs to stand in a particular spot, which can be confusing if the fight already has a lot going on, when telling them "run away from the group when you have the red marker" would be enough. They wouldn't know why they're running away, but after they see a spell effect like an explosion on them happen, well then they end up working out the rest for themselves through practical learning.

A player can strip down a fight to its absolute base and say "healers stand here and watch out for <debuff>, dps run here when <thing> happens" etc. They may not know exactly why they need to do something when a specific thing happens, but as long as they do know that they have to then that is enough. Understanding why will naturally come from doing the mechanics enough times.

That removes the stress of having to read quickly because people are waiting for you. I myself will watch a video phase by phase about 2-5 times until I join a learning party because I'm a slow learner, so I only have to practice my rotation and movements during the fight.

That's great if that works for you. But it doesn't work for everyone. I personally have trouble retaining information from videos even if I watch them multiple times. I have to literally write down notes so I can view them at my convenience. However I have little issue recalling something I have experienced for myself even if it's the first time I have seen it. Bosses literally knock some sense into me

[Crystal_Raven]

I am constantly , unpleasantly surprised at how intolerant , self-centered, and stubborn people can be.

Your "standards" are not anyone elses responsibility to meet.

No one is forced to babysit a slow learner. Not even mentors. A lot of mentors I've met share an opinion on teaching, if you as a player refuse to take the time to read up on a fight and try to learn on your own, why should I take my time to teach you what you can easily learn on your own?

Not to mention that mentors can only teach you by telling you what to do. If you can't learn by being told what to do, then we cannot help you. If we cannot help you and you continuously cause wipes, why should we allow you to waste the time of the entire party? Our time is just as valuable as yours.

The most important lesson people seem to forget, is self-reliance. If you are brand new to the game, sure, I will happily sit with you and explain all the base game mechanics and go with you through all the motions. However, if you are a level 70 and have put in no effort to learn anything, don't expect me or anyone else to lift a finger to help you. When you go in a raid, there's generally at least 7 other people. It is YOUR responsibility to find a way to learn without imposing yourself on 7 strangers and potentially wasting their time because you consider YOUR time to be more valuable.

I don't get why people in this community believe that it's OK to go completely unprepared into content and expect everyone else to take from their time to teach you when there are so many ways you can prepare for it in advance.

Teaching goes both ways, if you show no effort on your side to learn, why would I possibly take from my own time to teach you something?

[SerLuke]

Bad mentors are basically saying this: I’m a mentor but I don’t want to mentor people they should go watch guides and learn everything for themselves before they dare join content with me, and I better not be paired with anyone who has a learning disability that might need a little help. Oh and give me comms please so I can go get my mount.

[disturbedcobra]

I don't get why people in this community believe that it's OK to go completely unprepared into content and expect everyone else to take from their time to teach you when there are so many ways you can prepare for it in advance.

That is true in some sense but there are people much like myself who learn far better in the fire then in the kitchen. I can and sometimes will watch a vid but it doesn't help quite as often. I sometimes don't retain what I see in the video, but when I experience the fight first hand and manage through each mechanic personally, it makes it so much easier for me to run the content. Wipes happen and are expected, especially with high-end content. We all learn mechanics at different rates and methods.

[Feidam]

Teaching goes both ways, if you show no effort on your side to learn, why would I possibly take from my own time to teach you something?

And how do you know they didn’t take the time to watch a video? Or you are saying they should have mastered the fight before queuing? If that is the case the then you won’t be mentoring as they have already learned the fight.

I get the feeling this thread is all about the mentor roulette now and not mentors in general.

[Jimmymagic]

No this thread is about Mentors defending/supporting other mentors. Sprouts defending/supporting other sprouts. Who is right or wrong? Why do people keep vindicating themselves? Believe or not there are really, really good mentors and there are ones who are somewhat mediocre, and then the dooshbags.

The same can be sad about sprouts as well. Here's an idea play the game and have fun or don't. Really, both sides of arguing is valid, I see from a sprout like myself who frankly is not experienced or that skilled in the dungeons, have a beef with the "crown" image as this person knows it all. Ill them. From mentors that I played with are willing for the most part to help but do not condone being a floor mat and do not owe people time.

Where is the balance then?

[Aurelius2625]

If you didn't want to spend time TEACHING people who are new to content how to do it...then why the HELL did you become a MENTOR? Just asking. Maybe most mentors can't clear savage and rely on that mentor mount because they can't get the savage ones .

Just a joke.

But seriously, if you didn't want to mentor, why did you bother? I've helped tons of people through Omega savage, no mentor crown, just did it because I thought it was fun and wanted to do it. It's the reason I helped my friend through Sigma, because I knew so called "mentors" would abandon her and probably call her names. So, I helped her and others like her through the content because "mentors" probably wouldn't be good enough to do the content, and if they were, probably wouldn't stick around to help her long enough for her to clear. Ironic how the people you would expect to be there to help, are the last people you go to for help because of their HORRID reputation.

[Feidam]

If you didn't want to spend time TEACHING people who are new to content how to do it...then why the HELL did you become a MENTOR? Just asking. Maybe most mentors can't clear savage and rely on that mentor mount because they can't get the savage ones .

Just a joke.

But seriously, if you didn't want to mentor, why did you bother? I've helped tons of people through Omega savage, no mentor crown, just did it because I thought it was fun and wanted to do it. It's the reason I helped my friend through Sigma, because I knew so called "mentors" would abandon her and probably call her names. So, I helped her and others like her through the content because "mentors" probably wouldn't be good enough to do the content, and if they were, probably wouldn't stick around to help her long enough for her to clear. Ironic how the people you would expect to be there to help, are the last people you go to for help because of their HORRID reputation.

I’ve always helped people when I can. I find it rewarding and ultimately, if you think about it, self serving. The more people that master the content the faster in general your random runs become. I agree with the don’t become a mentor if you don’t want to mentor. There are those that only want that mount or only want to mentor those that are doing current content and older stuff be damned. Except if you are mentor expect to be asked about a lot stuff. If you don’t know just politely say so. If you queue up in the mentor roulette then accept what you have done.

However, I do agree that mentors do not have to let themselves be abused. No one has to tolerate harassment. Although, being expected to do a couple wipes of content is not being harassed when you signed up for it.
Just my take.

PS I’m a mentor.

[Paladinleeds]

Teaching goes both ways, if you show no effort on your side to learn, why would I possibly take from my own time to teach you something?

I've tried video guides before (several different ones). I've tried text guides too. They don't help me, because like I said, fragmented thinking and information overload (leaving me more confused than when I just go in blind, and yes, that legitimately happens to me, because learning disability is a real pain in the butt). Guess what, I've cleared several ex primals when they were current (including the clustertruck that was Thordan Ex when it was current, took me a couple of weeks of non-stop practice but I did it). So clearly, I CAN do it, I just need a different approach. So what do you suggest for that? By the way, for ex primals (since for other duties, I don't generally cause wipes and the mechanics come naturally to me most of the time), I make my own PF parties saying guide not required (because guess what, it doesn't help everyone). So I'm already making it open to you that I haven't seen a guide (I don't explain why in the PF, but as I've explained here, it's because it actually hinders me more than it helps). And yet, even when I've made parties that specifically state guide not required, I've been told to read a guide. Not often thankfully, but it has happened.

What else am I supposed to do? Just not attempt the content in the first place? If it turns out to be a main scenario quest, just pay the money for the story skip (because I bet if I made a PF for a dungeon, saying guide not required, I'd get targeted for it). Learning disability is a very real thing (I myself have Asperger's, ADHD, and Dyspraxia, all diagnosed by the relevant professionals with written records available, which is a brutal triad of learning related disabilities to deal with), and yet, with the right approach, I can still learn the mechanics and get the clears (and even go on to farm them, as I have done before). Picking up a little bit that I'm struggling with and pointing that bit out, perhaps with some guidance on how to handle it, actually helps me whereas throwing a full guide at me for the whole encounter doesn't, as you're breaking off a bite-size chunk that I'm struggling with (part of the information overload problem if you throw too much at once), and zeroing in on that. Bite sized chunks to avoid information overload.

[SerLuke]

I have aspergers and ADHD as well friend don’t get discouraged by a lot of these rude, insensitive comments I find in game people are generally kinder than some of the comments on here. I’ve come across a few jerks but very few and far between.