New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[Rilifane]

In WoW, you can only boost one character with a boost and not to max level though, while the story skip counts for all classes on this character in FFXIV. With SE not really encouraging making alts ad keeping this game heavily story-focused it's understandable that you'd need to pay more for the story skip. And there's a MUCH larger focus on endgame in WoW.

Also, I don't quite get the problem. Shadowbringers is still months] away.
You said that he returned from ARR content. You get to 50 fairly fast, even faster if you play as tank or healer and have short dungeons queues. If the queue is really long and he needs to a dungeon to progress with the MSQ, PF is always an option if no friends are online to help him. Had plenty of people help me out during my ARR Relic quest with the 50s dungeons, because the DF was empty af and I had 40min+ queue times as a healer but takes like 4-6min for a 70.
The ARR to HW transition is a bit tiresome and can take several evenings. But if reaching 70 & finishing MSQ as fast as possible without buying a story skip is his focus, then he can always skip all the cutscenes, already saving him tons of time and enjoy it later via new game+. Even if he can't play that much, he could probably get from 1 to 70 in time without excessive cut scene skipping.

And of course catching up takes a bit of time. So starting a few month before a new expansion obviously means, you've already missed most content when it was relevant but he's a far cry from "not reaching endgame in time". And even if he reaches max level shortly AFTER Shadowbringers hits, unless he is in a rush for server firsts, it won't matter. Queue times are a nightmare if you are ahead of the curb with the MSQ, nothing I would recommend.
And wether he does old max level content synced now or later doesn't make much of a difference. Sure, some classes will get reworked, but he's already long past the point of "playing it as it once was".

But honestly... with the heavy focus on story, world building etc, everything from 1 to 70 is what he paid for.
I fail to see why someone would rush through what is and always has been one of the major selling points for a game (on his first char no less) to get to endgame a few month before a new expansion hits.
The reason for implementing new game+ was largely the players wanted to replay the MSQ because they enjoyed it. Because they'd rather spent more time leveling a new class through MSQ again then spamming PotD/HoH. But he thinks of it as slog and a waste of time.
I can't help but think that maybe he should reconsider why he is playing FFXIV of all things when it was never a secret where the focus lies.

[SturmChurro]

Exactly.

Especially with Shadowbringers 2 months away, If jump potions are used just use NEW GAME +

You use either both jump potions or one of them, either their way NEW GAME + will be the logically solution to re-doing old content that was skipped.

It is a lazy position to take, but it will relieve some of it. Not enough, but good enough, at least.

In WoW, you can only boost one character with a boost and not to max level though, while the story skip counts for all classes on this character in FFXIV. With SE not really encouraging making alts ad keeping this game heavily story-focused it's understandable that you'd need to pay more for the story skip. And there's a MUCH larger focus on endgame in WoW.

Also, I don't quite get the problem. Shadowbringers is still months] away.
You said that he returned from ARR content. You get to 50 fairly fast, even faster if you play as tank or healer and have short dungeons queues. If the queue is really long and he needs to a dungeon to progress with the MSQ, PF is always an option if no friends are online to help him. Had plenty of people help me out during my ARR Relic quest with the 50s dungeons, because the DF was empty af and I had 40min+ queue times as a healer but takes like 4-6min for a 70.
The ARR to HW transition is a bit tiresome and can take several evenings. But if reaching 70 & finishing MSQ as fast as possible without buying a story skip is his focus, then he can always skip all the cutscenes, already saving him tons of time and enjoy it later via new game+. Even if he can't play that much, he could probably get from 1 to 70 in time without excessive cut scene skipping.

And of course catching up takes a bit of time. So starting a few month before a new expansion obviously means, you've already missed most content when it was relevant but he's a far cry from "not reaching endgame in time". And even if he reaches max level shortly AFTER Shadowbringers hits, unless he is in a rush for server firsts, it won't matter. Queue times are a nightmare if you are ahead of the curb with the MSQ, nothing I would recommend.
And wether he does old max level content synced now or later doesn't make much of a difference. Sure, some classes will get reworked, but he's already long past the point of "playing it as it once was".

But honestly... with the heavy focus on story, world building etc, everything from 1 to 70 is what he paid for.
I fail to see why someone would rush through what is and always has been one of the major selling points for a game (on his first char no less) to get to endgame a few month before a new expansion hits.
The reason for implementing new game+ was largely the players wanted to replay the MSQ because they enjoyed it. Because they'd rather spent more time leveling a new class through MSQ again then spamming PotD/HoH. But he thinks of it as slog and a waste of time.
I can't help but think that maybe he should reconsider why he is playing FFXIV of all things when it was never a secret where the focus lies.

The context of this thread, as I have stated many times, is broadly for new/returning players, and the problem with the addition of more and more expansions. "Broadly". As stated in the title "Impending expansions". He was just a catalyst for my thinking, and I have seen other players get overwhelmed and give up. The elitists will say good, however, new players turning away is never a good thing.

[Kalise]

For one, people play games for different reasons, and one of the main draws of an mmorpg is to do actual endgame content

Then they'll not particularly like FFXIV.

Since end-game content for it is not particularly great. Which is why many people get to max level, spam out raids until fully geared and then unsub until the next bit of MSQ gets released...

You may like doing that, but not everyone will, and having the option to skip this for players who want to play the mmo side of the mmorpg should be allowed, especially when the expansions keep stacking up. New game+ is nice , however.

The option is there. For a price.

If players really want to play the "MMO" side of things (Whatever that means in this context... I played with plenty of people doing the duties necessary for MSQ...) they can pay to skip all the stuff that makes FFXIV an actually good game and what gives it the edge over its competitors - Many of which do things better than it (ESO does far better open world content, BDO does far better combat, WoW does far better end-game Dungeon/Raid/PvP grinds).

FFXIV has its spot in having THE best story in an MMO. I'd even argue that it beats out Star Wars the Old Republic (Which is another story driven game... I hesitate to call it an MMO because 99.99% of the game and literally the entirety of the game that's worth a damn, is solo content. I.e. Doing your personal stories for each class and then the main story for each expansion. Dungeons and group content was/is trash in that game)

If people feel the need to skip that to get to the end-game grinds... Then they really do need to consider why they're playing this game as opposed to one of the other ones that caters to that gameplay better.

It's sort of like buying a book, then just reading the last chapter and saying "Well, I can read the rest of it later" but then you've only got the Epilogue left to actually read, which can be decent, but will always pale in comparison to you know, actually reading the story proper throughout the entire book.

[SturmChurro]

Then they'll not particularly like FFXIV.

Since end-game content for it is not particularly great. Which is why many people get to max level, spam out raids until fully geared and then unsub until the next bit of MSQ gets released...



The option is there. For a price.

If players really want to play the "MMO" side of things (Whatever that means in this context... I played with plenty of people doing the duties necessary for MSQ...) they can pay to skip all the stuff that makes FFXIV an actually good game and what gives it the edge over its competitors - Many of which do things better than it (ESO does far better open world content, BDO does far better combat, WoW does far better end-game Dungeon/Raid/PvP grinds).

FFXIV has its spot in having THE best story in an MMO. I'd even argue that it beats out Star Wars the Old Republic (Which is another story driven game... I hesitate to call it an MMO because 99.99% of the game and literally the entirety of the game that's worth a damn, is solo content. I.e. Doing your personal stories for each class and then the main story for each expansion. Dungeons and group content was/is trash in that game)

If people feel the need to skip that to get to the end-game grinds... Then they really do need to consider why they're playing this game as opposed to one of the other ones that caters to that gameplay better.

Where exactly are you getting your "facts" that people are only playing this to do the single-player story?

Just because you like one major aspect of this game, doesn't mean other aspects of this game aren't valid preferences for other players. You are stating your opinion as fact here.

[Rilifane]

What does that has to do with elitism?
A game that can be played for the story and character development alone and people stating, that the story is so enjoyable one shouldn't rush through it in favor of engame is as far from elitism as it gets.

You may have encountered new players being overwhelmed and giving up, likewise others here (including me) have encountered new players happily getting sidetracked by everything the game has to offer on the way to max level instead of rushing through it. You friend is frustrated. We get it.
But that doesn't mean it's a fundamentally flawed design of the game itself. Not when so many players enjoy what he is complaining about yet you say it like something that applies to every new player when it clearly does not. There will always be players who turn away from a game because it's not what they expected or they have been misinformed.
That's natural and not everyone has to like a game.
But it's no secret that FFXIV is heavily story and character driven with far less focus on endgame than others games like WoW. You can't enjoy a game for something that it is not.

Yes, subsequent expansions will add more and more to the story.
But let SE deal with it as it comes instead of painting everything in the darkest colors. They have found many solutions over time for some problems regarding story progression and I doubt they will stick to the same approach for the next who-knows-how-many expansions to come.
I know you want to get your point across but the problem you are describing isn't as common as you make it out to be.

I'm curious: what DO you want?
You have been describing the problem over and over now, making it out to be a flaw in design and the only option to get around this "waste of time" to be too expensive.
What would be your solution, then?

[Kalise]

Where exactly are you getting your "facts" that people are only playing this to do the single-player story?

Where exactly did I state it was "Fact" that people are only playing to do single-player story?

All I referenced, was the fact that a fair number of people, unsub after finishing the actual multiplayer content - Since it's quite short lived in this game and people would rather be economical with their sub fees.

Just because you like one major aspect of this game, doesn't mean other aspects of this game aren't valid preferences for other players. You are stating your opinion as fact here.

Yes, other aspects are valid preferences.

Though, I'd argue that many other preferences would be better satiated via other games, which do those aspects better than in FFXIV. Heck, ESO and BDO are FREE to play and offer some better experiences than are attained in FFXIV for certain pieces of content (ESO blows most MMO's out of the water with its open world content. While BDO, despite its flaws has great combat systems and a really fun Trading activity and is basically a better Eureka for combat)

The FACT is, that FFXIV, is heavily based around its solo (Mostly, since you have to do Dungeons and Trials with other people... At least, until Shadowbringers and the Trusts system...) story content. It's what it does best and it is what the game is focused around.

If people don't like that and wish to skip it, they can pay for that privilege, though, they should be warned that the result might not be as satisfying as they wish. Since, yes, while some people will focus on Crafting or Raiding in this game, it's not for everyone to enjoy ONLY that stuff due to how much focus FFXIV has on MSQ rather than these systems (As opposed to other MMO's which will have their focus on these things at the cost of their story. Hence, why I'm saying that WoW a game that is complete trash, actually does Dungeons and Raids better than FFXIV, as it does because its focus is entirely on them at the cost of every other aspect of the game)

[Derio]

Honestly this is the best time to be a new player because its inbetween expansions and there is no end game content to be running right now. Sure there are people running EX trials to get doggos or trying to clear savage before SHB. Everyone has a to-do-list I am sure.

But to say the new player experience is ruined because they want to be lvl 70, ivl400 so they can run endgame content is just crazy. This is a final fantasy game, and last time I checked the game is heavily influenced by its story. Why get excited over a story expansion if you are just going to skip it all.

[Zephanoa]

As others have pointed out this will be sorted soon enough with SHB. It is a bit of a slog but at the same time that is what it means to join an MMO after it's already been widely successful. You either pony up the dough to skip or you grind the long hard road. There are several FCs out there who don't mind running the older content to help newbies out so I don't feel like this as wide of a problem.

[Senn]

Would be nice if some main scenario quests that are unnecessary and irrelevant in ARR were cut out. Like random fetch quests that are just filler. Just turn those quests into side quests for people that want to do them.

[Iscah]

You are stating your opinion as fact here.

You opened the entire discussion by stating as fact that "the new player experience sucks". That's very much an opinion.

I'm not a new player here any more, but I joined after Stormblood was released, took a long time to work through MSQ (doing sidequests and leveling alt jobs along the way) and it's still been ages since I caught up - sometime around 4.2 if I remember correctly. And I enjoyed the experience and the story along the way.