PLDs are not MT, but DRK are. Discuss.

[Kabooa]

PLD has maybe 2 hallowed's it can use in a dungeon, but bulwark and sentinel having such long CD's.

Given that bosses do no damage compared to packs, having two hallowed grounds on giant pack pulls is pretty significant. Bulwark paired with Anticipation is nearly as strong as Vengeance / Shadow wall, and Flash is nearly another 20 seconds of 25% evasion.

Paladin isn't lacking in the slightest. Things die a little slower but I doubt anyone's gonna care if a dungeon takes 15 minutes compared to 17.

[Sanctify]

Meanwhile, I'm still over here thinking DRK being a tank is weird as hell already. Same thing with BRD being dps.

Oh but uh yeah pld main so plds rule c:

[Mortex]

The pld isn’t a good maintank because he lacks unlike the war and drk fast and strong Aggro generation and stance swap sucks on pld. And pld gauge in tank stance doesn’t fill reliable it’s a gamble to gain it fast or mega slow and war is main tank because unchained negates the dmg malus from his tank stance and he has the best cool downs by a mile, just because holm has 6 mins so we’re other tanks need to use cds to block tank buster war just holms and uses his cds for other things like autos in mechanic heavy phases and also war is the only tank to dmg buff himself for 10 % with slashing. And you can tell me what you want but we all know that he party dies way more often then the tanks the reason drk isn’t good or mutch taken in progress party’s and he brings no op shield and wings (got even buffed to be even stronger). Drk is good in dungeon just because he doesn’t need healing when the drk knows what to do.

[Kalise]

The facts behind such a statement are as such:

PLD have pretty bad snap aggro. Meaning they can't pull very well at all. (Often mitigated by having the WAR or DRK pull and then swap if for some reason the PLD is MT)

Outside of that, they're fairly equal to both other Tanks in terms of MT role. WAR edges out because Holmgang lets them one button ignore TB's more frequently than any other Tank. But otherwise the 3 Tanks can all mitigate damage adequately.

On the flip side, PLD has plenty of tools that allow them to be effective while in the OT position. They can Cover people, they can use Intervention on people (Also, enhance it with Rampart and/or Sentinel), they can use Passage of Arms to mitigate a bunch of damage in an AoE and they can shield people with Divine Veil. Heck, in a pinch they can even use Clemency and heal people.

Meanwhile... WAR can... Shield people with SiO and... Slap the boss... DRK can... Shield people with TBN and... Slap the boss...

So, essentially, while PLD's are functional as MT's, given that their only weakness can be covered by the other tank... Both other Tanks are absolutely trash in comparison to PLD in the OT position. Since PLD has far, far more utility that they can bring to aid the party - Even if it's not necessary to rely on these tools, the fact that they exist and can be useful at no loss of actually bringing the PLD makes them the go-to OT.

[SleepyNeko]

The facts behind such a statement are as such:

PLD have pretty bad snap aggro. Meaning they can't pull very well at all. (Often mitigated by having the WAR or DRK pull and then swap if for some reason the PLD is MT)

Outside of that, they're fairly equal to both other Tanks in terms of MT role. WAR edges out because Holmgang lets them one button ignore TB's more frequently than any other Tank. But otherwise the 3 Tanks can all mitigate damage adequately.

On the flip side, PLD has plenty of tools that allow them to be effective while in the OT position. They can Cover people, they can use Intervention on people (Also, enhance it with Rampart and/or Sentinel), they can use Passage of Arms to mitigate a bunch of damage in an AoE and they can shield people with Divine Veil. Heck, in a pinch they can even use Clemency and heal people.

Meanwhile... WAR can... Shield people with SiO and... Slap the boss... DRK can... Shield people with TBN and... Slap the boss...

So, essentially, while PLD's are functional as MT's, given that their only weakness can be covered by the other tank... Both other Tanks are absolutely trash in comparison to PLD in the OT position. Since PLD has far, far more utility that they can bring to aid the party - Even if it's not necessary to rely on these tools, the fact that they exist and can be useful at no loss of actually bringing the PLD makes them the go-to OT.

Pretty much what Kalise said, PLD is not favored as MT mainly because of:

1: Stance switching costs 1 gcd, you can try starting in Sword Oath but you will have a much lower starting threat and without a NIN you will lose aggro to any competent dps. And you most likely need to throw out 1 threat combo even in shield oath at the start unless you are being shirked on CD.

DRK also has this issue, however turning off grit does not require a gcd and DAPS gives a ton more threat than Shield Oath RoH.

2: Cover can be used for soaking TBs and you can't cover yourself when you are MT.

WAR is just the best MT because it is the best at MT and OT. ogcd Stance Changes means you can swap to Tank stance to build more enmity if required, also has unchained to remove penalty from the stance. Snap aggro generation from ogcd skills like Equilibrium and Last stand, gives a better Adlo shield and deployment for pre-pull, etc.

[Izsha]

WAR is just the best MT because it is the best at MT and OT. ogcd Stance Changes means you can swap to Tank stance to build more enmity if required, also has unchained to remove penalty from the stance. Snap aggro generation from ogcd skills like Equilibrium and Last stand, gives a better Adlo shield and deployment for pre-pull, etc.

Almost got it right until this.

War is terrible at ot. It brings nothing to the role of OT it cant do as a Mt. A properly played raid war sits in deliverance and slams fell cleave. As MT it does that while mitigating damage and using HG. As ot it just....cleaves the same amount. War is the worst OT in the game by a mile. Drk can at least tbn the Mt. Pld can do all the things. War just fell cleaves and it does that as MT anyway.

[Derio]

PLD have much more party defensive tools to where it makes sense for it to be off tank. So much so that it can heal others, shield others and redirect damage from others. Its the perfect off tank.

[Noitems]

PLD is absolutely the best OT. Intervention + Rampart/Sentinel, Cover, Clemency, it's got all the workings to be the best OT it can be.

PLD as a MT is possible but you're also cutting itself off from the greater parts of it's tool set as it's meant to help the MT. Not to mention PLD has the slowest aggro buildup.

For example in order to hold aggro proper I'd start in Shield do the Hate Combo, FoF+Circle of Scorn, and then switch right into Sword(which costs a GCD). As a DRK all I need to do is DA+Plunge DA+Hate Combo, then just drop Grit(which doesn't cost a GCD) and I'm ready to go. It doesn't seem like much reading it but in practice you see how well a DRK manages hate and does great DPS. Let alone a DRK has the absolute best shield in the game (TBN) and if I want to shield a healer going to eat shit I can send it right over and Shadow Wall/Dark Mind myself.

So TL;DR is the title true? No, but is it optimal? Yes.

[Awful]

So idk why its so hard to believe its the same with tank? I know tank ego is real in ffxiv, but you are not some super special group who can do no wrong, there are just as many bad tanks as there are bad everything else. And it may just be more noticeable on war and drk than pld.

Everyone's bad at something and there's always room for improvement, people judge tanks and healers more harshly then say, the SMN you're talking about because a SMN is just a SMN it can't heal or tank it can DPS, healers and tanks once great at their role are a boon for the party. A tank doing 4-5k DPS vs doing 2k DPS in tank stance, doing 1-2-3 isn't as helpful as a tank who is constantly rotating their CDs, DPSing, keeping threat, you can easily do mass pulls (like The Burn) without a tank stance.

I did it last night as a DRK but was I actively making it hard for the healer? No. I'd have threat, Abyssal Drain and rotate CDs while using TbN and Quietus for DPS and mitigation its all about how you play your tank is where people have their differences. As for the statement is DRK harder to heal than PLD? No. Same goes for WAR they all take the same damage it just depends on if your tank is rotating CDs, staying out of the bad, how fast things are dying etc, people need to stop spouting this nonsense that PLDs take the least amount of damage, yes they can block but its not life saving.

Also people joke about tank privilege but I've never seen tanks have an ego so I don't know where that mentality is coming from.

[Greven]

Right know they fit better in those roles due to their kits but they are all good enough and they will be balanced soon and who knows what will happen