5.0 leaks (that I don't believe)

[Kalise]

I'm saying it wouldn't feel the same at all, unless a new gauge acted the same. I don't want either class though to get the WHM lilly treatment where they have to work despite the mechanic, not because of it.

Well, I guess you should be against the current implementation of SMN then, since its the same fare. They work despite Aetherflow, not because of it.

As I mentioned, 20s CD Fester and 60s CD DWT would effectively recreate SMN's actual rotation. The literal only effect it would have is not being able to triple Fester during Contagion (But the flip side is they'd get a Fester during DWT meaning they only lose a single Fester under a 10% buff from if they were optimizing, but many people just stick to Sicfirit anyway, so it would be a buff for them to get the 1 Fester during DWT)

Since, unlike SCH, the job doesn't have much freedom about holding onto their Aetherflow, it's SPAM IT ALL ON CD to get the DWT's up every 60 seconds to get Bahamut up every 2 minutes.

Now the devil's advocate question, could a new gauge be used for sch with the same feel and work that is tied to enhancing the fairy? Could that work?

Quite possibly.

I'm not entirely sure exactly what, as it would need to be some sort of resource that they can generate to fuel their oGCD's that has some sort of limit on its generation and maximum potential - Effectively imitating Aetherflow.

Why though do you want to rework smn so badly?

I don't.

At least, not in this way.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that SMN, for all these bells and whistles, has not been designed particularly well. Sort of as though they were forced to include the Aetherflow mechanic in their design, rather than trying to design what they wanted for SMN and it being Aetherflow that they felt would fit it best.

Like, the fact that you could nigh seamlessly remove the gauge alltogether and the job would barely play any differently is a huge sign of poor design. Unlike any of the actually well designed jobs/job gauges where their removal cannot be simply covered by adding in CD's (Maybe PLD could get away with a fixed CD on Sheltron/Intervention? It'd ironically be a buff to Shield Oath which is terrible for generating Oath Gauge...)

Is it sharing archanist something that is ruining the feel of sch for you?

No. I feel SCH is fine.

You know, outside of obvious balance issues made by their shields being ridiculous for nullifying certain boss mechanics. Especially the dumb interactions involving Critlo > Deployment...

[Rosa_Frandlia]

Well, I guess you should be against the current implementation of SMN then, since its the same fare. They work despite Aetherflow, not because of it.

As I mentioned, 20s CD Fester and 60s CD DWT would effectively recreate SMN's actual rotation. The literal only effect it would have is not being able to triple Fester during Contagion (But the flip side is they'd get a Fester during DWT meaning they only lose a single Fester under a 10% buff from if they were optimizing, but many people just stick to Sicfirit anyway, so it would be a buff for them to get the 1 Fester during DWT)

Since, unlike SCH, the job doesn't have much freedom about holding onto their Aetherflow, it's SPAM IT ALL ON CD to get the DWT's up every 60 seconds to get Bahamut up every 2 minutes.



Quite possibly.

I'm not entirely sure exactly what, as it would need to be some sort of resource that they can generate to fuel their oGCD's that has some sort of limit on its generation and maximum potential - Effectively imitating Aetherflow.



I don't.

At least, not in this way.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that SMN, for all these bells and whistles, has not been designed particularly well. Sort of as though they were forced to include the Aetherflow mechanic in their design, rather than trying to design what they wanted for SMN and it being Aetherflow that they felt would fit it best.

Like, the fact that you could nigh seamlessly remove the gauge alltogether and the job would barely play any differently is a huge sign of poor design. Unlike any of the actually well designed jobs/job gauges where their removal cannot be simply covered by adding in CD's (Maybe PLD could get away with a fixed CD on Sheltron/Intervention? It'd ironically be a buff to Shield Oath which is terrible for generating Oath Gauge...)



No. I feel SCH is fine.

You know, outside of obvious balance issues made by their shields being ridiculous for nullifying certain boss mechanics. Especially the dumb interactions involving Critlo > Deployment...

The useless lily gauge may actually work with smn with you describe. Use of bane, fester, painflare generate a... hmm... dragon's blood that could tie into the 58 quest? get 3, dreadwyrm trance. Other things though would likely need replaced like bane, shadowflare, etc... but other spells would need to replace the class skills anyway for such a major rework. What would the level 1 spell be, or for that matter 38, 54, and 62 ones too. Even its already unique abilities would need to be reworked as well at 66 with bio and miasma. With just tri-bind , that is about the equivelant of an aero 3 from a whm alone and not nearly enough aoe that smn would have in losing bio and misasma with a bane and shadowflare.

It isn't as simple as you make it sound like it would be as there would be 1-50 class skills to change beyond 3 levels beyond 50 to change. It would have to be a whole new job if all of arc were taken out. Both it and sch have this problem of course, you'd have to totally come up with new skills to replace the ones lost 1-50 and have them work still in that level content.

[Kalise]

It isn't as simple as you make it sound like it would be as there would be 1-50 class skills to change beyond 3 levels beyond 50 to change. It would have to be a whole new job if all of arc were taken out. Both it and sch have this problem of course, you'd have to totally come up with new skills to replace the ones lost 1-50 and have them work still in that level content.

Well, the simplest answer is to just rename the current skills.

Ruin becomes I dunno... Dark? Banish? Fire Whip? Shining Air? Heavy Dust?

Bio becomes... Poison? Pain?

Miasma becomes... Scourge?

Physick becomes... White Flame? Earth Heal? Cauterize?

Energy Drain becomes... Osmose?

Shadowflare becomes... Voidstorm? Thunderstorm? Firestorm? Sandstorm?

This shifts the workload into simply creating unique spell effects and designing a new Job Gauge. Without having to actually rebalance anything at the time (Rebalancing can always come later to create more distinct jobs by differentiating the skills more)

[Rosa_Frandlia]

Well, the simplest answer is to just rename the current skills.

Ruin becomes I dunno... Dark? Banish? Fire Whip? Shining Air? Heavy Dust?

Bio becomes... Poison? Pain?

Miasma becomes... Scourge?

Physick becomes... White Flame? Earth Heal? Cauterize?

Energy Drain becomes... Osmose?

Shadowflare becomes... Voidstorm? Thunderstorm? Firestorm? Sandstorm?

This shifts the workload into simply creating unique spell effects and designing a new Job Gauge. Without having to actually rebalance anything at the time (Rebalancing can always come later to create more distinct jobs by differentiating the skills more)

That would work, but new animations would needed and again it isn't as simple as you want to make it. As for the carbuncles, in previous games they typically gave a reflect spell which doesn't work in FFXIV and doesn't actually fit either well. Also what would you do about Alphinauad's obsidian and ruby ones as they are dps and wouldn't fit your paradigm? Would you require the msq to change as well?

Can you at least agree it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it sound to split summoner and scholar from a lore standpoint? I'd hate to see it as they need to get healers balanced per their own words before giving us a new healer and we're waiting at least 2 more years.

[Kalise]

As for the carbuncles, in previous games they typically gave a reflect spell which doesn't work in FFXIV and doesn't actually fit either well.

Didn't stop us getting Radiant Shield on Ifrit-Egi.

Also what would you do about Alphinauad's obsidian and ruby ones as they are dps and wouldn't fit your paradigm?

Nothing.

Players don't get access to Alphinaud's unique Obsidian Carbuncle. Thus, it can be different.

Also, as I mentioned before, it's possible to have Carbuncles having an auto-attack before being "Upgraded" into the Fairies that are pure healers upon becoming SCH.

Can you at least agree it isn't as simple as you are trying to make it sound to split summoner and scholar from a lore standpoint?

From a lore standpoint, it's easy to split Summoner from Arcanist. Given that Summoner literally has no interaction with you being an Arcanist at all. There is no reference to you being an Arcanist.

Scholar on the other hand, literally does mention you being an Arcanist, it's literally the reason that Alka Zolka came to the Arcanists guild to seek out an experienced Arcanist because he wasn't versed in Arcanima what with being a Marauder...

I'd hate to see it as they need to get healers balanced per their own words before giving us a new healer and we're waiting at least 2 more years.

I don't know what relevance this has?

In no world would splitting a job from Arcanist create a "New" healer. The only Healer would be Scholar. For the same reason you don't see Conjurer's running about the place...