Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[LyraKuroneko]

I honestly don't mind if they have to give the same gear sets to more jobs if it means it would allow them to remove genderlock

It wouldn't change much ressource wise.

There would be about the same amount of model to do and the "big" change would be the stats swap which are unreleated to modeling.

Actually, as most armor model are color swap in the case we're talking about, it would most likely not change anything.

Yet they have already stated the backlash is way bigger than they though and they are considering on making the other genders...

For that point, I don't remember a time they haven't say that.

[Veis_Alveare]

Here's something. First and foremost, all they had to do (if they haven't already) was to 'borrow' the models from the other races and mildly tweak them, saving them from having to make completely new models from scratch and thus saving themselves time/money. That being said, everything, I wouldn't say was completely planned out, I mean for goodness's sake, they told us, out the gate, that most of the headgear (at least at the time of them reporting it) wouldn't even be wearable for the veira/hrothgar, due to their unique heads, but we're talking about TWO races that effectively cannot wear something everyone else has taken for granted. If that isn't some kind of flub or a sign of some rushed decision making, I don't know what else is.

That isn't the way things work, though. If they "borrow" a model and tweak proportions on it they wind up needing to tweak all the existing gear (so thousands and thousands of individual items) which is where the large resource drain comes in. If they don't significantly alter an existing model they are then accused of slapping rabbit ears on a Hyur.

You're confusing not understanding their point of view, with vehemently disagreeing with it. I fully admit this was done with the best of intentions, but that's the selfsame thing that paves the road to hell, as the proverb goes.
They reintroduced genderlocks after being the ones to remove that moving from 1.0 to 2.0. Mind you, the removal of genderlocks is one of the things the game is known and praised for, which is part of why this stings as bad as it does.
They've earned every accusation of sexism thrown their way, by virtue of introducing each gender for different reasons. And that's regardless of whether or not you agree they reinforce problematic gender stereotypes (coudl've been negated by introducing aesthetically similar gender matches, which they chose not to do), or how Hroth males were designed for the sake of "diversity" and "artistic integrity" or what not but the Viera females are sexy waifu bait introduced to please the masses (not that Hroth weren't requested, but not in such capacity, nor was it stated as the lone reason for their introduction). There's even criticism floating around about how what we saw already for Viera is in contrast to how they were portrayed in XII as far as mannerism goes (giggly, dainty waifus in the reveal trailer), so that feeds back into that all the more.

Now, mind you, they supposedly went on record saying they knew there would be backlash. This goes beyond "we can't please everyone", this is them knowing that they're doing something wrong on some level, they simply thought the good would outweigh the bad.
And then they proved once again how out of touch they are with the playerbase by failing to predict how badly this would blow up in their faces, both because female Hroths and male Viera were also requested by anyone who wanted those races, as well as the very basic act of going back to genderlocks. You have people who don't care for either race in particular but are reconsidering their support of the game because genderlocks are just that big a dealbreaker for them.

I'm not commenting on the quality of SE's intentions, I don't see how that matters.

Most western RPGs don't have significant gender locks and XIV may be Japanese-based but the majority of its players are western. Not having gender locks isn't making it stand out against something like ESO, gender locks just aren't as common in this market as they are over there.

I assume by 'aesthetically similar gender matches' you basically mean having an androgynous male Viera? I don't see the need for yet another pretty boy race any more than I see the need for another waifu race. Male hyur, miqo and Elezen can all be very androgynous looking and lalafel barely have perceptible gender differences.

Unpopular opinion but... males and females are different? I get it's a fantasy game and if SE makes a race with almost no sexual dimorphism (like Lalas) that's totally their right but to suggest not doing that is "problematic" is nonsense.

I'm sure SE won't ever say it, they're very much okay with leaving information ambiguous in order to avoid offending anyone just look at their lack of a stance on healer dps but getting your hopes up that enough people are going to unsub about no bunbois to get their attention is unrealistic.

[zeylos]

I'm sure SE won't ever say it, they're very much okay with leaving information ambiguous in order to avoid offending anyone just look at their lack of a stance on healer dps but getting your hopes up that enough people are going to unsub about no bunbois to get their attention is unrealistic.

Yet they have already stated the backlash is way bigger than they though and they are considering on making the other genders...

[reivaxe]

Lol, reading up on the last few pages and its nice to see that the "it's sexism!" Post have come out again with a nice dose of people complaining about HROTHGAR, the race that actually adds something to the line up, cause it's not what they wanted.


And people wonder why the devs ignore the whining of the West.

[BillyKaplan]

Most western RPGs don't have significant gender locks and XIV may be Japanese-based but the majority of its players are western.

It's big within the context of XIV itself. Like I said, they're the ones who removed genderlocks moving into 2.0, and were broadly praised for it. That's why it matters, I don't care about any other MMO.

I assume by 'aesthetically similar gender matches' you basically mean having an androgynous male Viera?

No. I mean equally beastial female Hroths and equally pretty (if still 'noticeably masculine') male Viera. They won't be without differences but they'll abide by the same aesthetic (not to an extreme like Lalafells, but also not like Au Ra). Then people wouldn't have a leg to stand on saying we got beefy men and model ladies (aforementioned problematic gender presentation) because we'd have also gotten beefy ladies or model men (using OR, because this scenario is if they had released one full race instead of two halfs).

but getting your hopes up that enough people are going to unsub about no bunbois to get their attention is unrealistic.

Zeylos already said what I was going to, but you're also forgetting that voting with your wallet doesn't begin and end with ubsubbing. People can stop buying from the Mog Shop. People can keep playing but not maintain their sub uptime whereas before they would be subbed all year round. They can reduce their sub to entry point and keep going with the one character - which also translates to less Mog Shop purchases if they didn't boycott it, because it's less characters to buy glamours for, and it makes mounts noticeably less worth the price.
And SE knows that or they wouldn't have already given us the non-committal yet existing statement about looking into feedback.

[Nestama]

They did promise it at an interview and I'd like to know what's selfish about it? Is it because we aren't letting Yoshida do whatever he wants? I don't really see that as selfish considering this is not his project and this is not an indie game this is an MMO we pay for monthly

Provide me a source where they say something along the lines of "we promise to never gender lock races again" then. As for selfish...

You should be careful with your wordings, some might misunderstand that. If its not his project/game/rights, then he wouldnt be the director and producer. And we as customers, arent above him either. We pay for a sercive, not tell him what to do.

More or less, yeah. FFXIV would probably be a dumpster fire if Yoshi-P/the dev team always did what the customers requested/demanded.

[zeylos]

Lol, reading up on the last few pages and its nice to see that the "it's sexism!" Post have come out again with a nice dose of people complaining about HROTHGAR, the race that actually adds something to the line up, cause it's not what they wanted.


And people wonder why the devs ignore the whining of the West.

Please, if u come here to insult others instead of apportion anything there is no need to post on this thread so u can feel better about making others feel bad

[Fland]

SAM and DRG working together could make sense, though I think the easiest implementation of changes to melee gear is just delete maiming as a set entirely and have monk, samurai, and dragoon all share gear. Tanks will be sharing between four jobs, healers between three, casters between three, and ranged-physical between three, so having the three strength melee share would make sense... but then you have ninja as the odd one out with a unique set. So possibly a 2-2 split is more sensible, in which case I feel like samurai is the more dexterous job than monk

I think if they'd make gear groups just by main stat (VIT, STR, DEX, INT, MND) then NIN can share the left side with the phys ranged as well (make it as scouting group).
Aside from AF, so far the aesthetics of the jobs don't really matter for the group gears, so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Lauront]

I think if they'd make gear groups just by main stat (VIT, STR, DEX, INT, MND) then NIN can share the left side with the phys ranged as well (make it as scouting group).
Aside from AF, so far the aesthetics of the jobs don't really matter for the group gears, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Ah, but you see, will NIN be a DEX dps come 5.0? Stay tuned!

[Renthas]

Yet they have already stated the backlash is way bigger than they though and they are considering on making the other genders...

No, they said that they expected this backlash. And where did they say they were considering making the other gender counterparts? If they had said that then we wouldn't have as many people up in arms about this situation, the most they've said so far is that they are listening to feedback and that they do not have the resources to make the counterparts at this time anyways. Also, further on the making armor designs less varied between the two genders, that isn't how the resources work at all. I said this earlier in the thread, at this point it's up to the higher-ups in Square whether or not the XIV development team gets the resources to make the counterparts, which in itself takes a lot due to having to make the skeleton+model, animations, fitting the armor, etc etc, it's a pretty expensive process.