Ive no faith in SE/Yoshi-P when comes to balancing healers

[Mortex]

Writing with the handy sucks with autocorrect-.-

[Capn_Goggles]

You've forgot to mention DRKs absolutely excellent self mitigation ability on magic damage fights, with dark mind with a 60s cd, its completely unmatched by the other 2, also its ability to project a blackest night onto a party member for little cost. I personally don't feel drk is lagging behind much at all atm, does more dps than pld, less than war, and is the personal mitigation tank. Whilst that does make it less desirable I wouldn't call it incredibly unbalanced.

DRK also occupies a good position as a switch-hitter for MT or OT, since its kit isn't really impacted by either. TBN being a worse intervention only applies on a purely defensive standpoint. The difference between TBN and Intervention is that TBN directly translates into more damage, and the damage it puts out is roughly equivalent to the MP cost of the ability. In practical terms, it means TBN is weaker on a purely numeric scale, but is available every 15 seconds and effectively costs no resources. Its power as a personal mitigation tool is a bit overrated on its own, but mixed with Dark Mind in a magic fight and you shrug off tankbusters like they're nothing.

The thing about tank balance is if they can survive a fight with equal effectiveness, and their DPS is roughly the same, then they are pretty much identical from purely balance terms. The fact that they're even this close is huge progress compared to HW or ARR, which is why I don't think a fourth tank is necessarily a bad idea now. The problem with healers is just how homogenized their kits are, and how utterly dependent they all are on OGCD healing by necessity rather than the sustained healing WHM is more suited for. The most obvious solution is to dumpster the idea of a pure healer so that WHM can finally occupy a niche, and rework AST so that it isn't a stop-gap solution between Scholar and WHM. I believe healers *can* be balanced, it doesn't take a lot, the problem is if SE is going to stubbornly stick to their guns as usual rather than admitting a flawed idea and reworking it.

[Sebazy]

One slight note with regards to tank damage balance outside of raid content.

Warrior DPS in level cap dungeons is an order of magnitude higher than DRK or PLD. It's not even remotely comparable currently, rather it's something that seems to have only ever gotten worse as the game has progressed onwards.

[LeonTrifang]

so they can understand what it feels like have your main nerfed to oblivion.

Well someone has pent up anger. Not that I blame you, but still.

[Renthas]

Haven't read replies so I don't know if someone's suggested something similar, but I'd like to see Stone get a reduction in cast time to 1.5s or 2s to allow WHM to weave OGCDs, however limited theirs might be, a bit more efficiently. I'd also like to see WHM get Bravery/Faith in SHB which increases an ally's damage dealt by 10% for 15 seconds on an 80 second recast timer.

[Feidam]

Haven't read replies so I don't know if someone's suggested something similar, but I'd like to see Stone get a reduction in cast time to 1.5s or 2s to allow WHM to weave OGCDs, however limited theirs might be, a bit more efficiently. I'd also like to see WHM get Bravery/Faith in SHB which increases an ally's damage dealt by 10% for 15 seconds on an 80 second recast timer.

I’m confused as to why people thinking whms are hurting in the ogcd arena

[Veis_Alveare]

I’m confused as to why people thinking whms are hurting in the ogcd arena

I am genuinely confused how you can play RDM (so presumeably you understand weaving in oGCDs) but not see how WHM doesn't have a good way to generate those windows. When your choices are clip or early refresh a hot/dot those aren't acceptable choices.

[Feidam]

I am genuinely confused how you can play RDM (so presumeably you understand weaving in oGCDs) but not see how WHM doesn't have a good way to generate those windows. When your choices are clip or early refresh a hot/dot those aren't acceptable choices.

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

[Veis_Alveare]

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

Ahh. I didn't take that post in the same way. I do think it's clear WHM's have a less valuable oGCD kit but the impact of that can be mitigated by a good cohealer. I think the focus of his point was more that WHM's may have less oGCD casts than the other healers but they still don't have enough windows to use those abilities without clipping though I could be interpreting it incorrectly.

The internet is weird.

[HyoMinPark]

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

It could simply be a comparison to the other healers (not including role actions, since all healers have those).

WHM oGCDs: Presence of Mind, Benediction, Assize, Asylum, Tetragrammaton, Thin Air, Divine Benison, Plenary Indulgence — 8 oGCDs

SCH oGCDs: Aetherflow, Energy Drain, Bane, Rouse, Sacred Soil, Shadow Flare, Lustrate, Indomitability, Deployment Tactics, Emergency Tactics, Dissipation, Excogitation, Chain Stratagem, Fey Union — 14 oGCDs

AST oGCDs: Lightspeed, Essential Dignity, Draw, Royal Road, Spread, Redraw, Synastry, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star (placement and detonation if you have to manually pop it), Minor Arcana, Sleeve Draw — 13 oGCDs (plus, every time you deploy a card, that is also an oGCD move, so I guess we could say 14, technically).


Compared to the other healers, WHM has half of the oGCDs they do, and half of WHM’s oGCDs are on a significantly long cooldown (Presence of Mind, Asylum, Benediction, and Thin Air). Meanwhile, AST does card stuff (at the very least) every 30 seconds; and SCH manages Aetherflow stacks on a 45-second rotation, so they ideally use an oGCD every 15 secs.