Ive no faith in SE/Yoshi-P when comes to balancing healers

[Renthas]

Haven't read replies so I don't know if someone's suggested something similar, but I'd like to see Stone get a reduction in cast time to 1.5s or 2s to allow WHM to weave OGCDs, however limited theirs might be, a bit more efficiently. I'd also like to see WHM get Bravery/Faith in SHB which increases an ally's damage dealt by 10% for 15 seconds on an 80 second recast timer.

[Feidam]

Haven't read replies so I don't know if someone's suggested something similar, but I'd like to see Stone get a reduction in cast time to 1.5s or 2s to allow WHM to weave OGCDs, however limited theirs might be, a bit more efficiently. I'd also like to see WHM get Bravery/Faith in SHB which increases an ally's damage dealt by 10% for 15 seconds on an 80 second recast timer.

I’m confused as to why people thinking whms are hurting in the ogcd arena

[Veis_Alveare]

I’m confused as to why people thinking whms are hurting in the ogcd arena

I am genuinely confused how you can play RDM (so presumeably you understand weaving in oGCDs) but not see how WHM doesn't have a good way to generate those windows. When your choices are clip or early refresh a hot/dot those aren't acceptable choices.

[Feidam]

I am genuinely confused how you can play RDM (so presumeably you understand weaving in oGCDs) but not see how WHM doesn't have a good way to generate those windows. When your choices are clip or early refresh a hot/dot those aren't acceptable choices.

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

[Veis_Alveare]

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

Ahh. I didn't take that post in the same way. I do think it's clear WHM's have a less valuable oGCD kit but the impact of that can be mitigated by a good cohealer. I think the focus of his point was more that WHM's may have less oGCD casts than the other healers but they still don't have enough windows to use those abilities without clipping though I could be interpreting it incorrectly.

The internet is weird.

[HyoMinPark]

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

It could simply be a comparison to the other healers (not including role actions, since all healers have those).

WHM oGCDs: Presence of Mind, Benediction, Assize, Asylum, Tetragrammaton, Thin Air, Divine Benison, Plenary Indulgence — 8 oGCDs

SCH oGCDs: Aetherflow, Energy Drain, Bane, Rouse, Sacred Soil, Shadow Flare, Lustrate, Indomitability, Deployment Tactics, Emergency Tactics, Dissipation, Excogitation, Chain Stratagem, Fey Union — 14 oGCDs

AST oGCDs: Lightspeed, Essential Dignity, Draw, Royal Road, Spread, Redraw, Synastry, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star (placement and detonation if you have to manually pop it), Minor Arcana, Sleeve Draw — 13 oGCDs (plus, every time you deploy a card, that is also an oGCD move, so I guess we could say 14, technically).


Compared to the other healers, WHM has half of the oGCDs they do, and half of WHM’s oGCDs are on a significantly long cooldown (Presence of Mind, Asylum, Benediction, and Thin Air). Meanwhile, AST does card stuff (at the very least) every 30 seconds; and SCH manages Aetherflow stacks on a 45-second rotation, so they ideally use an oGCD every 15 secs.

[Hustensaft]

It could simply be a comparison to the other healers (not including role actions, since all healers have those).

WHM oGCDs: Presence of Mind, Benediction, Assize, Asylum, Tetragrammaton, Thin Air, Divine Benison, Plenary Indulgence — 8 oGCDs

SCH oGCDs: Aetherflow, Energy Drain, Bane, Rouse, Sacred Soil, Shadow Flare, Lustrate, Indomitability, Deployment Tactics, Emergency Tactics, Dissipation, Excogitation, Chain Stratagem, Fey Union — 14 oGCDs

AST oGCDs: Lightspeed, Essential Dignity, Draw, Royal Road, Spread, Redraw, Synastry, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star (placement and detonation if you have to manually pop it), Minor Arcana, Sleeve Draw — 13 oGCDs (plus, every time you deploy a card, that is also an oGCD move, so I guess we could say 14, technically).


Compared to the other healers, WHM has half of the oGCDs they do, and half of WHM’s oGCDs are on a significantly long cooldown (Presence of Mind, Asylum, Benediction, and Thin Air). Meanwhile, AST does card stuff (at the very least) every 30 seconds; and SCH manages Aetherflow stacks on a 45-second rotation, so they ideally use an oGCD every 15 secs.

That comparison is majorly flawed. If you want to make it even more flawed, how about adding the three undraws to AST?

SCHs oGCDs are limited by Aetherflow (of the 14 listed, 7 are restricted by Aetherflow). ET and DT modify a GCD cast, therefore labelling them as oGCD is just bad. Redraw, RR, Spread and Minor A are tied to the 30 sec Draw CD, so they don't add more value over that. WHMs oGCDs on the other hand always have a value.

You should look on the number of oGCDs each healer gets to cast per minute: SCH is at 7, WHM is at 6.12, and AST is also at 7.

No, in terms of how many oGCD to cast, all three healing specs are fairly similar. You can also argue about the potency value these oGCDs give you per minute (Aetherflows limitation has a massive impact of the potency output)

[HyoMinPark]

That comparison is majorly flawed. If you want to make it even more flawed, how about adding the three undraws to AST?

SCHs oGCDs are limited by Aetherflow (of the 14 listed, 7 are restricted by Aetherflow). ET and DT modify a GCD cast, therefore labelling them as oGCD is just bad. Redraw, RR, Spread and Minor A are tied to the 30 sec Draw CD, so they don't add more value over that. WHMs oGCDs on the other hand always have a value.

You should look on the number of oGCDs each healer gets to cast per minute: SCH is at 7, WHM is at 6.12, and AST is also at 7.

No, in terms of how many oGCD to cast, all three healing specs are fairly similar. You can also argue about the potency value these oGCDs give you per minute (Aetherflows limitation has a massive impact of the potency output)

Hey, man. I only said that could be the comparison they were making. Not that it was. It had nothing to do with oGCDs per minute - it was simply an assumption that WHM has less oGCDs than the others, which it does. And half of them are on far longer cooldowns than a lot of SCHs or ASTs.

Modifying a GCD or not, DT and ET are still considered oGCD abilities. Especially since they are not on the global cooldown. If they were, they'd be called GCDs. Same with the card actions regardless of frequency of use. I didn't include the Undraw, Empty Road, and Unspread actions as most ASTs tell people to make status off macros specifically to avoid eating an oGCD slot with the skills.

What Veis said is correct, I just phrased it poorly. I meant that they have less OGCDs compared to the other healers and on much longer cooldowns.

Oh look, he literally confirmed what I was assuming.

[Renthas]

I get that part, however, folks are saying WHMS are limited in what ogcd’s they have. I’m mean take the person I quoted, in regards to WHM ogcds he says to allow whm to weave ogcds, how ever limited theirs maybe. That second part has nothing to do with weaving the way it is worded.

What Veis said is correct, I just phrased it poorly. I meant that they have less OGCDs compared to the other healers and on much longer cooldowns.

[Mansion]

What Veis said is correct, I just phrased it poorly. I meant that they have less OGCDs compared to the other healers and on much longer cooldowns.

And Presence of Mind aligns with nothing, with its awkward 150 sec CD instead of 60, 90,120 or 180sec traditional buffs.