Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Crystal_Raven]

It depends on how you approach people ^.^; if you are quick on the trigger with calling out something or offering advice as soon as something goes south then you may be met with resistance. What I like to do is ride the wave a little while, if the situation does not improve then I offer advice with a carefully crafted message tailored to the situation, being mindful of their feelings and how my message would be received and my critique is usually accepted and they improve shortly after. In the past I would definitely call out any wrong doing but was met with the backlash you have mentioned, I then found a more friendly and peaceful way to help others improve, sincere and kind messages explaining what went wrong and how to improve

I understand it can be frustrating to offer help and not get a warm reception but maybe the approach was off, I stay away from offering my "humble advice services" if it was clearly a mistake or something minor as that can come across as annoying or rude. Try and be funny and kind rather than dry and antagonistic, add personality to your messages and you would be surprised at the results, I have had great success with investing a tad more time into my critiques.

This is false. It doesn't matter how you approach people, they will still take it personally and respond with hostility. I've tried smiley faces, positive, general advice instead of directed at a specific person, regardless of what you do, some people will stick act like you pretty much insulted their mother.

Today I watched an RDM hard cast Verthunder and Veraero all the time. So I told said player that he can get more damage out much faster if he uses Jolt first and then verthunder or veraero until the other 2 proc.

The response? I was called a toxic elitist and a variety of insults, he even tried to kick me for harassment. He refused to play further as well because I apparently am a "elitist filth". In the end we had to kick him just so we can actually progress the dungeon. No one in the party understood what the guy was on about, everyone else thought it was polite advice.

[hydralus]

What really grinds my gears is when someone literally asks for advice/tips and then ignores what you tell them.

A tank that said it was their first time (clearly level-boosted)? Fine. After the first pack they asked for any advice. I told 'em, "You can safely pull 2 or maybe even 3 groups of monsters and try to cycle through your defensive cooldowns." They didn't, stating something along the lines of "I want to save my cooldowns for the boss" and "Make sure you have enough MP to heal", fearing that if they pulled more I would run out of MP... for some reason. Even after assuring them it would be fine because I have MP regens and their cooldowns come back after a minute or two, they just went back to 1-pack pulling and using no cooldowns until the boss... at which point they USED ALL OF THEM, and by the time they ran up to the boss half their cooldowns were already falling off.

Or a healer I ran in to some time ago who was the type to spam cure I. Again, whatever. The tank pulled as large as they could, likely because they wanted to keep the healer busy at least... and they actually died. When asking what happened, the tank pointed out to them, "You didn't heal me enough". They asked how they could heal any better, and so I started listing some things off. "Use more than the weakest healing skill you have. Regen, assize, cure II, benediction, asylum, tetragramation... nope. "I really only like having 1 hotbar" was the excuse but hey, at least the cure spam upgraded to cure II spam. It was just wild.

And yes these are severe outliers but my goodness.

[SerLuke]

This is false. It doesn't matter how you approach people, they will still take it personally and respond with hostility. I've tried smiley faces, positive, general advice instead of directed at a specific person, regardless of what you do, some people will stick act like you pretty much insulted their mother.

Today I watched an RDM hard cast Verthunder and Veraero all the time. So I told said player that he can get more damage out much faster if he uses Jolt first and then verthunder or veraero until the other 2 proc.

The response? I was called a toxic elitist and a variety of insults, he even tried to kick me for harassment. He refused to play further as well because I apparently am a "elitist filth". In the end we had to kick him just so we can actually progress the dungeon. No one in the party understood what the guy was on about, everyone else thought it was polite advice.

Do you have screens of this convo? I’m very curious to see the actual wording cause looking at your post history I’ve seen you flat out calling people bad and telling them to “git gud”

[Drayce1]

My opinion: this has a lot to do with the game's design.

The first fault is that the game's basic content is just really easy. People like to meme about ice mages in duty finder, but the thing is that the game pretty much lets you get away with that. Yes, ice mages are annoying. Yes, tanks that can't hold enmity right are inconvenient. But guess what? Unless everyone is just really bad, you can still beat your roulettes despite these annoyances because the game's difficulty - in regards to duty finder content at least - allows it.

The second fault is the duty finder. You aren't required to socialize with people to initiate non-savage content, hell even party finder tends to lack socialization. Most people just que for their duties and just idle until it pops, once it does pop they then do the bare minimum until Duty Complete comes across their screen and they instantly leave without saying a single word. Anybody criticizing them for doing the bare minimum (that the game allows them to due to lack of difficulty) is seen as some sort of elitist and no-lifer that's forcing others to live up to a supposed unrealistic expectation. They themselves suffer no consequence for being bad since, if someone has a problem with them, they can just que up with more randoms.

Know whats also annoying?

Healers wearing right side all 100 ilvs lower or worse o.o. Then complains when tank dies....or wont double pull....

[FoxyAreku]

Because "You don't pay my sub."

Though tbf, they don't pay mine either so why they feel it's okay to make my experience horrible with their terrible play and lack of understanding is beyond me.

[Cheremia]

So... "try to help people no matter how hostile they will react to it"
i will throw in tips when i can and i got mixed results too. Very thankful, ignored, hostile.

And i will continue to try to help people since i feel like i can help this nervous healer.

But that is not the problem for me at least. Since these people just didn't know and actually learn.

It's the people that hide behind those people who don't know things. Those who don't care, who don't try, who will insult you at every twist and turn. It's people that want to be carried and since it's hard to see actual performance most of the time, they just can get away with watching netflix or whatever.

At least for me, it's fine to be "Bad" but it's still not fine to be bad because "omg i can't be bothered to play"

[Neoyoshi]

How one offers advice plays an important role. "Lmao learn 2 tank [insert slur here]" is different from "Can you please get this mob off of me?"

On the other end, some people are just toxic jerks who don't want to be told how to play. It seems to differ by data center because on Aether- wew, there are some hot messes I get in DF over Primal.

Every community since ever has its stinkers. It's not a high crime, it's just the types of mentality that gets exposed with tens of thousands of people who get awfully stupid when they forget there's another person on the other end of their monitor. XIV has them in droves because it's T for Teen, meaning haughty high schoolers are getting home and being idiots online. Nothing new.

Very well said. This game can be very pleasant once we are all on the same page and can communicate with each other.

[Souljacker]

The biggest problem that leads to the general toxicity is the design of the dungeons. They are designed such that you aren't meant to be social, at all, ever. Pull, pull, pull... dodge, dodge, dodge... button, button, button. You can't stop pressing buttons for one second because your dps drops, and even if you do have a longer casting spell and can type out a bit, then you have to dodge something that targets your ley lines or whatever. So right there, any interaction from another player becomes nothing but a nuisance that you then have to pause to read and possibly respond to. These dungeons are not the place to get general instruction or have conversations about playstyle.

Now, I've also been in a handful of dungeons with players that made me scratch my head. Like one a couple days ago with a BLM who outgeared me by a decent amount but was only managing about half the damage I was. Did the dungeon go a lot slower? Sure. Was it something I was going to get my panties in a twist over? Nah. The amount of DPS the team would lose by me stopping my rotation to explain to that other BLM would have made things even worse. So I just did my thing and we finished the dungeon. That player will either get better in harder content or will continue to do only duty finder casually. And that's just fine. I accepted the randomness of the duty finder when I queued.

In the end, the game isn't worth getting upset over. If you want to play with players who are at the top of their game 1000% of the time, the duty finder isn't for you. You can queue up with your hand-picked friends and thus skip the stress.

For me? I'll giggle a little at some of the things I see and move on to the things I like to do. Maybe that attitude is just something that comes with age. I can't really remember if the community was so angry at things back when I was younger, but then again, we were playing XI in those days which was a very different experience.

Edit: I think the worst I remember was catwho posting a pic of a drg that had obviously AFK'd for a second in a meripo. I guess there was some of that going on then but for some reason those days on Alla didn't seem like the sheer amount of threads and salt here.

[Neoyoshi]

The biggest problem that leads to the general toxicity is the design of the dungeons. They are designed such that you aren't meant to be social, at all, ever. Pull, pull, pull... dodge, dodge, dodge... button, button, button. You can't stop pressing buttons for one second because your dps drops, and even if you do have a longer casting spell and can type out a bit, then you have to dodge something that targets your ley lines or whatever. So right there, any interaction from another player becomes nothing but a nuisance that you then have to pause to read and possibly respond to. These dungeons are not the place to get general instruction or have conversations about playstyle.

Now, I've also been in a handful of dungeons with players that made me scratch my head. Like one a couple days ago with a BLM who outgeared me by a decent amount but was only managing about half the damage I was. Did the dungeon go a lot slower? Sure. Was it something I was going to get my panties in a twist over? Nah. The amount of DPS the team would lose by me stopping my rotation to explain to that other BLM would have made things even worse. So I just did my thing and we finished the dungeon. That player will either get better in harder content or will continue to do only duty finder casually. And that's just fine. I accepted the randomness of the duty finder when I queued.

In the end, the game isn't worth getting upset over. If you want to play with players who are at the top of their game 1000% of the time, the duty finder isn't for you. You can queue up with your hand-picked friends and thus skip the stress.

For me? I'll giggle a little at some of the things I see and move on to the things I like to do. Maybe that attitude is just something that comes with age. I can't really remember if the community was so angry at things back when I was younger, but then again, we were playing XI in those days which was a very different experience.

Annnnnd then there is Castrum meridianum and good ol' Praetorium, the two most social-friendly Dungeons in the entire galaxy.

They are now at least since we can no longer skip those cutscenes like we could in 2.0 days.

Watch that chat just come alive when all you have is a cutscene you've watched so many times to keep you company. xD

[Souljacker]

Annnnnd then there is Castrum meridianum and good ol' Praetorium, the two most social-friendly Dungeons in the entire galaxy.

They are now at least since we can no longer skip those cutscenes like we could in 2.0 days.

Watch that chat just come alive when all you have is a cutscene you've watched so many times to keep you company. xD

I know what you mean, but I haven't queued up for it since the change back to forced cutscenes. Not even the extras are worth THAT much time wasted per game session.

I wish they could have found a middle ground with those two.