Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Crystal_Raven]

When did this game become a job; where performance was more important then enjoyment?

This seems more like a case of people taking a video game waaaaaaaay too seriously, and using the kick option in abusive ways.

When did it become acceptable for people to waste other peoples time? When did "i play for fun omg get a life" become an excuse to never learn anything and better yourself? When did a casual player time become more valuable than a midcore or hardcore player?

I will do everything in my power to be as strong as possible and avoid wasting the time of the people i'm partied/raiding with.

In MMOs performance has always been directly related to the enjoyment of the party as a whole. If a person is underperforming horribly to the point it's affecting everything(which is surprisingly common), the majority of the party will no longer enjoy playing.

Why is it that you people believe ONE persons enjoyment is more valuable than the other 7 in the party? What kind of selfish arrogance is this?

[ShadowYomi]

Just make it so a person can leave without a penalty after ten or twenty minutes have passed. Or cut the penalty timer in half.

[Hash_Browns]

Just make it so a person can leave without a penalty after ten or twenty minutes have passed. Or cut the penalty timer in half.

I would rather kick the problem then have the 3 people who aren't the problem leave without penalty.
Kicked player can queue back up right away.

[Veis_Alveare]

It's part of our capitalistic culture. A person is only as much worth as his work capacity. When he doesn't go all in he is "lazy" and has to be replaced with someone else.

I'm confused.

This makes it seem like you're implying that a person who isn't doing their best isn't being lazy? That's like... the definition of lazy - not trying.

[Granyala]

This makes it seem like you're implying that a person who isn't doing their best isn't being lazy? That's like... the definition of lazy - not trying.

Actually, you do not know what is a persons best. Just because you or I might find sth pathetically easy, does not mean it comes easy to everyone.
I'm sure there are players out there that are really trying their best but simply aren't cut out for the game.

I have encountered these kinds of people and that's why I am hesitant to kick based on subpar performance alone.

[Veis_Alveare]

Actually, you do not know what is a persons best. Just because you or I might find sth pathetically easy, does not mean it comes easy to everyone.
I'm sure there are players out there that are really trying their best but simply aren't cut out for the game.

I have encountered these kinds of people and that's why I am hesitant to kick based on subpar performance alone.

I don't know their best but I know that with basic reading comprehension and the application of logic that I shouldn't see some of the poor play that I do.

No one is asking for everyone to be a Savage raider but doing things like AoE, dps as a healer and using CDs as a tank is miles away from that and those are things anyone can do because anyone can read their tooltips.

If they don't they're lazy and a kick isn't out of the question.

[Hash_Browns]

Actually, you do not know what is a persons best. Just because you or I might find sth pathetically easy, does not mean it comes easy to everyone.
I'm sure there are players out there that are really trying their best but simply aren't cut out for the game.

I have encountered these kinds of people and that's why I am hesitant to kick based on subpar performance alone.

Just as a reminder, the situation of the tank getting kicked in the OPs story was in The Burn, a level 70 dungeon that requires post stormblood progression, and an iLvl of 340.
If we have to baby people enough that the most basic things are considered a skill (tank pulling more then 4 enemies, healers DPSing, DPS using AOEs) then the skill requirement is ZERO, because these are basic things you learn by level 50 of playing a class.. like, as in your very first time playing any DPS, or tank, or healer when you first decided to get the game.

If the basics aren't in your skill set by level 70, you are still gonna get kicked.

[Granyala]

I don't know their best but I know that with basic reading comprehension and the application of logic that I shouldn't see some of the poor play that I do.

I expect with basic reading comprehension and the application of logic, school mathematics should be a problem for no one.
Yet I have met people with dyscalculia that cannot reliably perform simple arithmetic operations no matter how hard they try.

We are talking about the 4 basic math operations here, if we have to baby people enough that the most basic things are considered a skill then the skill requirement is ZERO.
Yeah, we do that plenty IRL.

Why should we behave so differently in video games meant to entertain and relax?

[Nyvara]

Actually, you do not know what is a persons best. Just because you or I might find sth pathetically easy, does not mean it comes easy to everyone.
I'm sure there are players out there that are really trying their best but simply aren't cut out for the game.

I have encountered these kinds of people and that's why I am hesitant to kick based on subpar performance alone.

Thank you, It's quite possible People may have a mental of physical handicap or maybe they are just slow at picking things up, but they just want to enjoy playing the game. When we are talking about roulette and quest dungeons I think it's really unfair to call them " bad" or "lazy" when as you say they are trying their best. This is a game and it is meant to be enjoyed by everyone not just a select few. The Devs do a good job at having content for all skill levels and it shows. It falls to us as players to also be just as inclusive.

[Feidam]

Objectively false. Aoe > single target... you literally surpass the damage you would be doing with smaller pulls... more damage faster = things die faster.... = dungeon done sooner.

Who said anything about single target And I also said necessarily not absolutely. As in there are times where they are a detriment. I’ve been groups where the pulls went flawlessly yay for us nice smooth run. I’ve been in groups where there they took longer to kill for whatever reason and small pulls should have been the way to go. So large pulls are not necessarily faster. Also you are not getting more damage from spells in large pulls. The potencies remain the same. What you are getting is the killing of more mobs in one go that could save a bit time as you are stopping less meaning being more efficient. Which in turn could lead to a faster run time assuming the kill rate is fast enough. Which usually happens with the level of gear we have the moment but doesn’t always. There are more variables to consider then large pulls only go!