Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Crystal_Raven]

One player states that the ideal rotation for one job is done by one sequence other states differently in the end the standard ends up to be determined by personal experiences and not by one official SE guide, the only orientation is given by the game is the skills combos and the description in each paragraph and even so players can choose do different rotations with results of similar dps parse for roles such as Bard and Ninja.

This is pure false information and lying.

Rotations are made by players through countless hours of testing and calculating. All rotations get tested until you arrive at simply the best rotation you have available with the current game mechanics.

You can't just magically do another rotation and get the same result, that is practically impossible. The rotations provided by the people who are actually going through countless hours of calculating and testing are simply the most optimal and best performing rotations.

Edit: Claiming that you can do any rotation and get a similar result compared to the optimal rotations people find through testing and countless hourts of effort, is just insulting to those of us that are actually doing that and constantly trying to improve the best rotation ever so slightly.

[Aramina]

Otherwise? I don't really care. Healer not DPSing? Eh. Tank pulling small? Guess I'll just single-target. Co-DPS not AoEing? Eh. Their prerogative.
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That's pretty much where I am at as well. At most, if the group is being friendly/chatty I will tell the tank he can pull more if he likes when I am healing, or if I am not healing and the healer looks bored I will say they can DPS to have something to do. Most times though unless someone asks a question I just worry about myself and let them do as they wish. If it gets bad enough (it rarely does), I will leave myself.

That said, if other groups are more picky... if the majority of the group wants you gone then that is that... it doesn't really matter WHY they want you gone.

[Ilan]

It's not that it's acceptable; it's that it's not worth making a fuss over. If people get hit by things, heal them. If people die, solo it yourself. Make up for their shortcomings with your own skill. No need to make a fuss over it; if they want to improve they will and if they want to underperform then, it's whatever if it's not extreme, savage or ultimate.

They aren't wrong about these things. If they want to learn they will go and seek out knowledge. It's their sub!

Never experienced this. If they ask for help, give it politely otherwise leave them be - simple solution I think.

Those MMOs are not very chilled out then. They need to chill out. It's a game that you play for fun in your spare time. Shouldn't take it so seriously, as if said person is a qualified engineer and doing an incompetent job at engineering. It's just a game. You and I may play too much and take it seriously like that but consider that the majority do not. As long as they are having fun getting hit by mechanics always, it's whatever (if it's not extreme, savage or ultimate).

Its their sub is right but its also the sub of the other people where they are going into dungeons, trials or raids. You don't want to tell us now that one sub is more important than the other 3-23 subs, right?

[galbsadi]

The main problem is that the game itself doesn't actually do anything to teach people. Not even simple basics.

Yes, there's the Hall of the Novice, but that's optional. It's sat over in the corner just whimpering and occasionally whispering "Umm... Excuse me but I don't think you're doing that quite correctly..."

I wouldn't jump too quickly into thinking that's a fix. Ex:My wife has her struggles quite a bit with learning rotations, etc....but hall of the novice? She got through that with flying colors. Further, even in games where this or similar was required, you'd still see plenty of players who passed the 'requirement' but weren't able to properly play their classes (or just didn't care to). (Ex: WoW)

[Granyala]

Expecting accommodations or special treatment to be made based on the fact they assume you need help because of outside factors really only hurts us that suffer from disabilities, since end of the day I know a lot of us just want to be treated fairly, not as a special case.

I have to disagree here.
We have a colorblind person in the raid and when it comes to green vs red we do help out with hints via TS etc.

Yes, many of us that have disabilities are rather proud and want to be treated like normal people but there is a point at which our disability can hamper the groups progress, it is idiotic and arrogant to not want simple special treatments that make everything go more fluently.

[DPZ2]

The standard in terms of rotation is determined by theorycrafters with math and hours of testing. No, you cannot do a “different” rotation on BRD or NIN and achieve similar results as the optimized rotation, assuming both players are equal in terms of skill.

SE has never determined how we play the game. For a long time, things like rotations have been determined by the playerbase.

I would prefer that those theorycrafters dealt with more than end-game optimization. What good does the end-game rotation do you at level 43 or level 59, especially since most of those rotations are built on max-level actions and abilities?

I would also prefer that those optimizations were more widely referenced, as a non-optimized search for "monk rotation ffxiv", for example, will give you a lot of up-front results for ARR and HW before you find the current meta.

Also good to see you added "assuming both players are equal in terms of skill" ... since that is generally where things break down.

[Awha]

I have to disagree here.
We have a colorblind person in the raid and when it comes to green vs red we do help out with hints via TS etc.

Yes, many of us that have disabilities are rather proud and want to be treated like normal people but there is a point at which our disability can hamper the groups progress, it is idiotic and arrogant to not want simple special treatments that make everything go more fluently.

As I mentioned if someone wants help then by all means ask for it, but if it is not brought up how is the group meant to know, I do not know of many with disabilities that do not mention their disabilities yet expect people to know and accommodate them. That is what my statement is in regards to.

[Veis_Alveare]

I would prefer that those theorycrafters dealt with more than end-game optimization. What good does the end-game rotation do you at level 43 or level 59, especially since most of those rotations are built on max-level actions and abilities?

When it comes to learning a new class it's essentially up to the person playing to reverse engineer their current rotation during the leveling process or synced content, the breakdown seems to come when people look up a rotation to follow but don't take the time to understand why things are the way they are.

Take something simple like RDM for example. You can look up the openers for level 70 play and execute them but if you try to do them synced to 50 not only do you wind up with a lot of holes but fundamentally the whole thing will fall apart without Manafaction to double your mana to start your melee combo. Going deeper there is no reason to hold Swiftcast for so long since there is no Embolden to use it under for an extra buffed 310 potency spell.

You have to understand all your abilities and how they interact, that's just your job as a player. Reading guides by more skilled players is a great start. Once you have that understanding though you're able to piece together rotations at lower levels, no need to theorycraft them in a serious manner.

[SerLuke]

I’m just curious, what content are you constantly wiping to and not being able to clear? With the except of running stuff like the 8 man and 24 man raids day one when people are leaning I very rarely see continuous wipes in anything and it’s usually something like an under geared DPS in The Burb that dies to every air that takes up all the healer’s MP. Also I’ve never actually seen someone say “you don’t pay my sub” in a serious sense I’ve only seen it used by people joking.

Also I’ve never been banned or warned by a GM for giving constructive criticism, “you have to Esuna that or the person will die” is different from “LOL why do you suck so much healer how did you get to 70?”

Perhaps if you are just finding yourself frustrated with this game and it’s community a break might do well? Above all else this is a game, if it’s constantly making you upset, frustrated, disgusted and angry you’ll be doing everyone especially yourself a favor by taking a break.

[Veis_Alveare]

I’m just curious, what content are you constantly wiping to and not being able to clear? With the except of running stuff like the 8 man and 24 man raids day one when people are leaning I very rarely see continuous wipes in anything and it’s usually something like an under geared DPS in The Burb that dies to every air that takes up all the healer’s MP. Also I’ve never actually seen someone say “you don’t pay my sub” in a serious sense I’ve only seen it used by people joking.

Also I’ve never been banned or warned by a GM for giving constructive criticism, “you have to Esuna that or the person will die” is different from “LOL why do you suck so much healer how did you get to 70?”

Perhaps if you are just finding yourself frustrated with this game and it’s community a break might do well? Above all else this is a game, if it’s constantly making you upset, frustrated, disgusted and angry you’ll be doing everyone especially yourself a favor by taking a break.

I've seen "you don't pay my sub" unironically as well as "you don't know me don't tell me what I'm capable of" when I tried to tell a new healer in a discord I'm a part of that they were in fact capable of dpsing because everyone is and they "just needed to believe in themself" which is... definitively not toxic or rude, my entire message read like a self-help book.

Let's not try to act like our own experience offers anything more than anecdotal evidence as to the state of the game as a whole. Implying that someone who sees bad players saying "you don't pay my sub" is likely earning it by being rude is effectively a victim-blaming mentality which is generally bad.