Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

[Nuna]

Wasn't that such as cesspit that even the normal reddit had to cut all ties with it?

What makes it a cesspit? Nothing that sub does is offensive.

Basically, people really want to play games without actually PLAYING it.

Pretty much. I didn't want to believe there were people that only press one button, but they exist & they should not be carried, period.

[Lissyl]

I routinely try to look up things on fights and learn what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure this thread has dissuaded me from trying to raid here. It's depressing to me how much play has changed in the last 15 years.

[Feidam]

I routinely try to look up things on fights and learn what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure this thread has dissuaded me from trying to raid here. It's depressing to me how much play has changed in the last 15 years.

If you are interested give it a try. The views here are way stronger than you encounter in game usually.

[Cheremia]

I routinely try to look up things on fights and learn what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure this thread has dissuaded me from trying to raid here. It's depressing to me how much play has changed in the last 15 years.

It's fine if you go into things blind. Just say you're new and MOSTLY, at least 1 person tries to explain mechanics. If not, then it can't be on you if you die to something that isn't obvious. I don't think the mentality of "look it up before" that some people have is right either, let new people enjoy and learn the mechanics.

All this thread is about are people that literally aren't even trying...

[Dualgunner]

It's fine if you go into things blind. Just say you're new and MOSTLY, at least 1 person tries to explain mechanics. If not, then it can't be on you if you die to something that isn't obvious. I don't think the mentality of "look it up before" that some people have is right either, let new people enjoy and learn the mechanics.

All this thread is about are people that literally aren't even trying...

That, like so much else, is all about reading the room. If you join a savage farm blind, people are justified in their annoyance. If they join a fresh learning party blind, someone being annoyed about that is unjustified. Clear party blind is a grey area though.

[Crystal_Raven]

I routinely try to look up things on fights and learn what I'm doing, but I'm pretty sure this thread has dissuaded me from trying to raid here. It's depressing to me how much play has changed in the last 15 years.

Trying to raid things like Savage for example usually goes decently well, at the very least you can find 1 or 2 players that are actually trying to improve.

The thread is regarding the type of people who do nothing at all and expect to be carried through everything. If you say you're new, you usually get 1 or 2 people that are willing to sit by you and explain the mechanics.

Issue is we have people that don't even have the decency to do that, they'd rather just cause wipe after wipe after wipe and insist it's someone elses fault.

[Kazrah]

Why are standards a crime? Why do people think it's acceptable to waste everyone's time by wiping a raid repeatedly and when offered advice they respond with toxicity? This is a pretty common thing, and i find it mind boggling.

I'm pretty sure it involves the fact that being called out or proven wrong about something in the typical level of aggression displayed by frustrated players triggers the area of the brain associated with physical pain, meaning that they likely won't learn from their mistakes due to backfire effect and will keep doing them.

Honestly, I usually think it's by the grace of god that some players know how to tie their shoes, let alone know how to be competent in whatever content I'm doing. That's why I expect the worst at the start and adjust accordingly.

[Xarion]

You'll always have those players that refuse to learn sadly. Feedback (depending on the wording) Shouldn't be seen as a personal attack. I've been playing this game since 2015
(this is an alt account) and I've seen far more positive feedback given to players than negative. Now when that feedback is ignored or the person trying to give help gets insulted, then things can go negative.

I recently had a tank in a duty roulette who would not use flash or use cool downs. When the healer said something about it then tank replied " you're not my dad!" the healer replied with "fine Just stay a bad tank". We eventually had to kick him sadly, no matter what we said or how we said it he just wouldn't listen.Until people stop seeing feedback as a personal attack, I'm afraid this will always be an issue.

[Celestene]

It is because when you first start people expect them to know it all right away. When I first started people were just plain mean. Tried to explain I had just started they did not care. There needs to be a learning curve for people, esp now with the tomes and auto-60, it just makes people less knowledgeable about their trade. I recall learning the hard way as a mage and that long slog from 40-50 seemed forever. Yes they should LEARN their trade, but also please help newbie players without condescension and insults. Makes for a better player base if people could stop being so nasty to people in game.

[Jeeqbit]

It's completely mind boggling that this is considered acceptable by a large part of the community.

It's not that it's acceptable; it's that it's not worth making a fuss over. If people get hit by things, heal them. If people die, solo it yourself. Make up for their shortcomings with your own skill. No need to make a fuss over it; if they want to improve they will and if they want to underperform then, it's whatever if it's not extreme, savage or ultimate.

if you criticize their actions because they don't understand basic game mechanics at pretty high levels if not max level itself, respond with insults, toxicity, "you don't pay my sub", "i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning", "i play how i want to", "you don't control my account" and so on

They aren't wrong about these things. If they want to learn they will go and seek out knowledge. It's their sub!

And if you don't say anything to them, you get called a toxic elitist for choosing not to help them.

Never experienced this. If they ask for help, give it politely otherwise leave them be - simple solution I think.

In the vast majority of other MMOs, if you are a bad player, you will be called a bad player, people will try to help, you are given the opportunity to improve and stop being a bad player.

Those MMOs are not very chilled out then. They need to chill out. It's a game that you play for fun in your spare time. Shouldn't take it so seriously, as if said person is a qualified engineer and doing an incompetent job at engineering. It's just a game. You and I may play too much and take it seriously like that but consider that the majority do not. As long as they are having fun getting hit by mechanics always, it's whatever (if it's not extreme, savage or ultimate).