A complaint from a whiny healer

[Ftail]

I'm a healer main who has been playing SCH since the release of 2.0. Recently I've been trying to level up all my healers to max level, and all I have left is my AST.

I feel as if these forums encourage people too much to not use tank stance. What I hope to encourage people to do is to use tank stance more, and I'm not just talking about large mob trash pulls, i'm talking about bosses. Let's make it clear first that I'm not always pro-tank stance.

For example, I had an excellent tank in duty finder, a warrior who didn't use his tank stance for boss fights. He kept aggro, mitigated damage perfectly for tank busters and made the run an absolute delight allowing me plenty of time to DPS. He got a commendation from me. However, not everyone plays like this or is geared out properly for it.

The next run however in a leveling dungeon I had a dark knight. This DK had decent gear for his level, but he wasn't ilvl and lvl synced down like me. While playing on AST and healing him during large mob pulls, I was barely keeping him alive while he was in tank stance. I was completely unable to DPS, I put a regen on him and I was spamming my most powerful single target heal and that was barely enough to keep him alive.

For the boss fights he didn't use tank stance and each auto attack from the boss was taking an absolute massive amount of HP from him. He was holding aggro, so I didn't want to seem like a whiny healer so I didn't complain to the group. To make matters worse, the DPS weren't lvl synced so the fights took longer then normal. I was spamming Benefic II so much that I went OOM during the fight even with regular usage of lucid dreaming, I had to use the ewer card on myself to regen mana instead of boosting the groups DPS.

The point I'm trying to make is this, please stop saying tanks who use tank stances on bosses are bad tanks. It completely depends upon the circumstances. I feel as if tanks reading these forums feel peer pressured into not using tank stances on bosses to be considered "good". Holding aggro while in DPS stance doesn't automatically make you a good tank, this needs to be said more to tanks in the process of leveling.

There were no wipes and I ended up walking away with 2 commendations. But, please next time you say something akin to, "only bad tanks stay in tank stance." Either don't say it, or clarify that they should be level synced down or in savage please.

I'm just going to clarify one more time, I'm not against tanks not using tank stance. Also, I realize this is partly my fault for not telling the tank he is making me suffer.

[Ekimmak]

Personally, I always use tank stance in levelling dungeons, because there's something about how it scales down that makes it a lot more hazardous to my health.

I dunno why I'm more scared of an ice sprite in Dusk Vigil than Kefka, but I am.

[MrThinker]

Personally, I always use tank stance in levelling dungeons, because there's something about how it scales down that makes it a lot more hazardous to my health.

I dunno why I'm more scared of an ice sprite in Dusk Vigil than Kefka, but I am.

Oh that is simple, you can never massively outgear the ice sprite when you are lvl and ilvl sync'd down compared to Kefka who I think we can now outgear by at least 40 ilvls if I'm not mistaken?.

[Phoenicia]

Oh that is simple, you can never massively outgear the ice sprite when you are lvl and ilvl sync'd down compared to Kefka who I think we can now outgear by at least 40 ilvls if I'm not mistaken?.

The sprites in Dusk Vigil are nasty. Even though I think tank stances should be removed from the game and I pride myself for being a "never-in-tank-stance" tank, unless absolutely needed. Those sprites in Dusk Vigils are one of the scenarios I think it's "absolutely needed". A few other examples like the first 2 packs in the Aery or the pack of 3 just before the dragons at the end, a couple packs in The Vault also come to mind atm.

[Lyth]

The OP describes a scenario in which the tank is in tank stance for trash pulls and not in tank stance for bosses (and getting hit hard in both instances). The healer is able to keep the tank alive, but the primary complaint is that the healer isn't able to dps as a result.

To be honest, having a tank use tank stance on trash pulls and turn it off for bosses is a pretty conservative way of playing, to begin with. It's really just the fact that you're in a levelling dungeon dealing with gear discrepancies that it's not smooth sailing. But at the end of the day, the tank is holding enmity, and you're keeping the tank alive without any deaths. That's a pretty good start for a levelling dungeon.

Another point worth noting is that players never get better unless they push themselves. I would rather see a tank cause a wipe by playing too aggressively in a low-stakes learning environment and make some adjustments based on what they've learnt from the pull, than to never see them try anything new.

This is also one of the reasons why I hope that tank dps output never falls below healer dps output. Imagine being told to put on tank stance so that your healer can dps more. No thanks.

[Ftail]

The OP describes a scenario in which the tank is in tank stance for trash pulls and not in tank stance for bosses (and getting hit hard in both instances). The healer is able to keep the tank alive, but the primary complaint is that the healer isn't able to dps as a result.

My DPS is only a secondary complaint, barely keeping the tank alive would be my #1 issue.

To be honest, having a tank use tank stance on trash pulls and turn it off for bosses is a pretty conservative way of playing, to begin with. It's really just the fact that you're in a levelling dungeon dealing with gear discrepancies that it's not smooth sailing. But at the end of the day, the tank is holding enmity, and you're keeping the tank alive without any deaths. That's a pretty good start for a levelling dungeon.

This is the attitude I'm hoping to change for at least a few people.

Another point worth noting is that players never get better unless they push themselves. I would rather see a tank cause a wipe by playing too aggressively in a low-stakes learning environment and make some adjustments based on what they've learnt from the pull, than to never see them try anything new.

There is a proper time and place to push yourself. Being a level 59 tank while the healer is level synced down to 60 is not one of them. I remember him hitting level 60 mid dungeon and hoping he'd have a shire set to swap out, sadly he didn't.

This is also one of the reasons why I hope that tank dps output never falls below healer dps output. Imagine being told to put on tank stance so that your healer can dps more. No thanks.

You are completely missing the point I'm trying to make. I'm really trying to not get irritated by how far off the mark this statement is, it upsets me.

[Valdima]

The sprites in Dusk Vigil are nasty. Even though I think tank stances should be removed from the game and I pride myself for being a "never-in-tank-stance" tank, unless absolutely needed. Those sprites in Dusk Vigils are one of the scenarios I think it's "absolutely needed". A few other examples like the first 2 packs in the Aery or the pack of 3 just before the dragons at the end, a couple packs in The Vault also come to mind atm.

Theres an area there where if healer looks away for 2 seconds and you're making friends with a pile of snow.

[Renthas]

For example, I had an excellent tank in duty finder, a warrior who didn't use his tank stance for boss fights. He kept aggro, mitigated damage perfectly for tank busters and made the run an absolute delight allowing me plenty of time to DPS. He got a commendation from me. However, not everyone plays like this or is geared out properly for it.

The next run however in a leveling dungeon I had a dark knight. This DK had decent gear for his level, but he wasn't ilvl and lvl synced down like me. While playing on AST and healing him during large mob pulls, I was barely keeping him alive while he was in tank stance. I was completely unable to DPS, I put a regen on him and I was spamming my most powerful single target heal and that was barely enough to keep him alive.

For the boss fights he didn't use tank stance and each auto attack from the boss was taking an absolute massive amount of HP from him. He was holding aggro, so I didn't want to seem like a whiny healer so I didn't complain to the group. To make matters worse, the DPS weren't lvl synced so the fights took longer then normal. I was spamming Benefic II so much that I went OOM during the fight even with regular usage of lucid dreaming, I had to use the ewer card on myself to regen mana instead of boosting the groups DPS.

It seems less to me like you have an issue with no tank stance and more that you simply had a bad tank. Maybe I'm missing the point too, but if he had tank stance on for trash and was getting absolutely murdered and no tank stance for bosses, the issue is that he isn't using mitigation cooldowns. Likely an issue with armor as well.

[Kabooa]

Can't wait to do the level 75 dungeon and see that humbling, hard gear reset.

[Ftail]

It seems less to me like you have an issue with no tank stance and more that you simply had a bad tank. Maybe I'm missing the point too, but if he had tank stance on for trash and was getting absolutely murdered and no tank stance for bosses, the issue is that he isn't using mitigation cooldowns. Likely an issue with armor as well.

The point I'm trying to make is don't be afraid to use tank stance if you need to. It seems to me these forums label any tank who stays in tank stances as a "bad" tank. But, I argue depending on the circumstances you could be a great tank staying in tank stance. Anyone leveling a tank might feel pressured from other people to not use tank stance, and I want to reassure people that you aren't a bad tank if you have to use tank stance on bosses while leveling up.