Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

[kamenkuro]

Just because you're a guy that's not confident about wearing bunny stuff doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it. Let the people who are confident enough with their masculinity to wear the stuff that somehow offends your own.

For your information I have put it on, didn't buy it, not wasting the mgp. I actually considered buying the pants, but unfortunately most outfits I wear would cover up the bunny tail.
It's a meme outfit anyways.

[Joven]

XD Sorry I keep jumping in, you made some interesting points and wanted to offer another perspective on it! Figure Kacho has a separate POV from mine here and like got discussed before whole thing's pretty hot button.

I agree there's a huge difference between how fictional characters are treated versus how real people are treated, but I also think storytellers can craft agency for their characters in a way that should be clear and possible to articulate. Part of the issue here and part of why I think Kacho's suggestion of choice (while not necessarily doable on a practical level because time/money/labor constraints) is a much fairer suggestion than censorship is because players for FFXIV will often personally interpret personalities for their WoL's. Not everyone does, but I know I've heard a bunch of players express feeling kinda :< because one or another canon element was in contradiction with how they were developing things. I personally think it's okay to either disregard pieces of canon that don't gel according to what makes sense, or to be creative and come up with alternate scenarios for how a character gets from point A to point B. It's not the perfect solution, but can still turn out some really impressive results.

When it comes to using words like sexism with respect to fictional characters, honestly there sometimes is actual cause. However, partly because the terms get taken SUPER seriously a lot of the time and partly because it's possible the creator just goofed, is learning, or has some other legitimate reason for inclusion that you weren't aware of... I don't think just saying "sexist" is the most effective way to review the issue. Kind of similar to how "Mary Sue/Marty Stu" isn't the best way to articulate "your character doesn't fit into the world or cast organically and is warping everyone/everything around 'em in ways that aren't justified'. Different people might take the term differently.

- Bayonetta exists as a big fanservice character. A lot of her humor involves doing absolutely ridiculous things that result in T&A at different points. A big part of the joke is that it's absurd. She also is shown to have fun with it. One scene something shocking happened, the camera pans between reaction shots of various characters. Little girl? Shocked. Guy #1? Shocked. Guy #2? Shocked. Bayonetta? Boob shot. Because the moment was light hearted and poking fun at how silly/ridiculous the fanservice was while sharing it, no need to worry I figure. Not coming at anyone's expense. Sometimes we can just laugh at boobs and butts.

There's also more funny male fanservice humor starting to crop up too these days (look at Jojo haha), and imo that's worth celebrating!

Overall though I think this is mostly a thing where the clearer we can be and more nuance we allow, the more productive convos will go. Can totally give critique, but I think there's a difference in gravity between critiquing a choice and critiquing a person. And while people are free to make works with creepy subtext (fiction's not mind control after all), people can still engage with that subtext critically.

ALSO YOU CAN DO IT ON THE GAME JOVEN! Glad feedback before was helpful!

No need to apologize for jumping in when you have something to say, this is an open discussion after all.

I get where you're coming from about the agency of the characters, but the neither the Viera nor any female character in this game is shown to lack agency. You might say Nanamo, but her's is a situation of story context. She lacks power because of Ul'dah's economics not because anyone is holding her down. The Viera are shown to be a strong hunter/warrior race and not victims of oppression and discrimination. Maybe they embrace their sexuality like Bayonetta, or maybe they don't even consider the concept of sexuality the same as we do. The only one's who do know are the devs and part of me believes they don't think that far into things.

I also take issue with how "fanservice" has been boiled down to simply the inclusion of T&A when it is so much more than that.

Other than that, thanks for the motivation and support!

[Sigma-Astra]

For your information I have put it on, didn't buy it, not wasting the mgp. I actually considered buying the pants, but unfortunately most outfits I wear would cover up the bunny tail.
It's a meme outfit anyways.

How is it a meme outfit...?

[kamenkuro]

How is it a meme outfit...?

It's a joke, like the pig costume or fat chocobo head

[Iscah]

Because they are a fierce race of female warriors who live in a jungle that is super hot and stifling. If you notice most peoples who live in jungles tend to wear very little clothes at all. Should they be wearing full plate in a jungle?

But should they be wearing black leather and metal? What about stiletto heels?

As I said earlier, the amount of clothing they're wearing seems fine (even maybe overdressed) for a jungle tribe, but the style of clothing is completely out-of-place - and it has rather different real-world connotations, whether they're intended to apply here or not.

[Sigma-Astra]

It's a joke, like the pig costume or fat chocobo head

I don't think it was meant as a joke for most of the playerbase requesting it.

[Iscah]

For what it's worth, unlocking the bunny outfit has also given some extra costume options that have nothing to do with the "bunny suit" itself - particularly the ears, which could be used with all sorts of costumes, and the plain cloth wristbands.

[Sigma-Astra]

But should they be wearing black leather and metal? What about stiletto heels?

As I said earlier, the amount of clothing they're wearing seems fine (even maybe overdressed) for a jungle tribe, but the style of clothing is completely out-of-place - and it has rather different real-world connotations, whether they're intended to apply here or not.

...Why are we applying real world logic towards a fictional race and culture? People are getting offended and trying to defend a fictional race of people that can't even be offended over what they're wearing. You can't say the style of clothing is out of place because it's not even a "normal" jungle. For all we know, it could be considered normal fare within the lore.

There's no use in trying to rationalize something that we don't need to.

[kamenkuro]

I don't think it was meant as a joke for most of the playerbase requesting it.

Well it's a joke and anyone wearing it is either in on it or being laughed at. It's up to them to join in

[Sigma-Astra]

Well it's a joke and anyone wearing it is either in on it or being laughed at. It's up to them to join in

You're the only person I've heard of vocally say that it's a joke. Again, it's fine if you're not comfortable with wearing it, it doesn't mean that you get to make fun or treat other people any lesser because they're comfortable wearing it and you're not.