BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[Anesteria]

Watch out, before you get the "Lap up everything SE does" gang's attention.

They can come and present the same trite and fallacious arguments.

If in some cases people think "limited jobs" are fun for them, that's ok, it's what they feel.

However, the current limited job system is barebones, and even after the so called "hardcore" elements will be added, it will always be lagging behind compared to the other jobs, as well as being perpetually stuck in content that is just useless.
One could say, that Blue Mages could help new players or help in levelling other jobs but... BLU can't use the duty finder, and Yoshida's current incarnation of "limited jobs" doesn't want it to UNLESS he's going to undermine what he's stated, which begs the question on whether the source is then reliable at all...

While I would like to say that using "fun" to describe "limited jobs" would be an oxymoron, I cannot however support that in good conscience, as I recognise that people have different tastes in what "fun" is. It is however surprising that such minuscule and inconsequential piece of "content" could be considered as such. Let alone how it could even be considered acceptable, to degrade an entire JOB into such a state.

I have a simple dream where every job will join in hands as equals. (Watch SE turn every job into a limited job only experience. /s)

[Boreal]

I do find the concept of limited jobs interesting, and I'm not against at it per se.

It's just...this game doesn't have interesting solo/open world content as it stands now. The ones we do have (squadrons, Fates, maybe even Eureka/Diadem) either forbid BLU to enter or heavily discourage you from doing. I was mindblown when I attempted to do fates and learned I gained less exp from both fate-related mobs and for finishing the fate than if I did it with a normal job. W h y.

The closest thing this game has to massive open world content are the Hunts and Odin, but BLU cannot participate in relevant content hunts, and attempting to do the 50s hunts would be meaningless because the hunt is going to get swarmed by 70s and die before you can get your 2nd spell off. I won't even comment at what would happen if a BLU attempted to do Odin (which, btw, is also considered a fate).

As it stands now, after you finish levelling BLU and do the Masked Carnivale stages, you will most likely forget the job exists, or maybe attempt to get all the spells and achievements if you are a completionist before forgetting about it. The primal spells in particular are another can of worms, because I swear you are more likely to get a Doggo without totems than you are likely to get them.

I seriously think that the only way you can make limited jobs work better and stay a bit more relevant in this game would be having more engaging open world/solo content, and making sure all the limited jobs are, you know, up to the expansion cap. Either that or just give up on the limited job concept.

Well, they could always tie important side content to limited jobs like the relic weapons, too, to keep them relevant and not change anything else! I'm sure everyone will love it.

[Physic]

I do find the concept of limited jobs interesting, and I'm not against at it per se.

It's just...this game doesn't have interesting solo/open world content as it stands now. The ones we do have (squadrons, Fates, maybe even Eureka/Diadem) either forbid BLU to enter or heavily discourage you from doing. I was mindblown when I attempted to do fates and learned I gained less exp from both fate-related mobs and for finishing the fate than if I did it with a normal job. W h y.

The closest thing this game has to massive open world content are the Hunts and Odin, but BLU cannot participate in relevant content hunts, and attempting to do the 50s hunts would be meaningless because the hunt is going to get swarmed by 70s and die before you can get your 2nd spell off. I won't even comment at what would happen if a BLU attempted to do Odin (which, btw, is also considered a fate).

As it stands now, after you finish levelling BLU and do the Masked Carnivale stages, you will most likely forget the job exists, or maybe attempt to get all the spells and achievements if you are a completionist before forgetting about it. The primal spells in particular are another can of worms, because I swear you are more likely to get a Doggo without totems than you are likely to get them.

I seriously think that the only way you can make limited jobs work better and stay a bit more relevant in this game would be having more engaging open world/solo content, and making sure all the limited jobs are, you know, up to the expansion cap. Either that or just give up on the limited job concept.

Well, they could always tie important side content to limited jobs like the relic weapons, too, to keep them relevant and not change anything else! I'm sure everyone will love it.

They definitely need more content, i would try to aim for only 10 levels difference rather than 20 levels. Access to Eureka would be pretty great, hoping that they let them in via level caps. But they also need some better low man/solo content, and some job goals that dont involve spamming one fight repeatedly for a very low chance of success while basically doing nothing due to being carried.


so i think


10 levels from cap


Bonus learning chance when party is at or below reccomended levels (flat 10% increase, would make getting really hard ones way better, but getting bread and butter skills, not that bad even if cheesing it)


Access to some open worldish content, that is more engaging/difficult like Eureka, or something similar


Improve and expand carnivale


Some longer term goals for improving/playing blue mage. Perhaps boosts based on monsters hunted/knowledge learned, or yes a relic weapon for blues, or various other possibilities.

[BubblyBoar]

Interesting open world and solo content can be done without introducing limited jobs. There's no reason that limited job = fun open world content.

[Physic]

Interesting open world and solo content can be done without introducing limited jobs. There's no reason that limited job = fun open world content.

kinda yes, kinda no. The jobs are not designed to be fulfilling solo, and dont have the tools to have compelling fights. all a dps can do is dps, so they cant respond well to monsters, mitigate damage very well, in general they need high hp monsters with low damage, so they can actually have to try to perform a dps combo without dying. Tanks need low hp, hard hitting monsters, or else they just get bored fighting easy monsters for long periods. Healers, well they generally have very poor mitigation, and very boring dps skills. they need low hp enemies, who do moderate damage so they can heal, but it probably wont be very fulfilling.


for a good solo encounter, you need to have some more control over all the facets of the fight than they usually give to one job, and you probably need different enemies to fight.


There are ways around this, like logograms, which add new traits/skills, but you would probably need more than 2 total for it to actually be engaging.


They could go the route of like squadrons, which could work, but i think it would need more control over the npcs, or at least like gambits in FF12, but not sure how well that would work in the open world.

[dezzmont]

I actually am super ok with the concept of limited jobs. FFXIV's DF content is heavily focused on the trinity and while there is absolutely no reason Blu HAD to break the trinity, I think what the devs really wanted was sort of permission to break the Trinity by knowing they now had a category to put stuff that broke it.

I do think though they could have made a 'DPS mage' blue. More importantly, I think that Blu really highlights how bad non-roulette content is.

Blu would fit in great in GW2, where overworld content is actually legitimately amazing and probably one of the most fun things to do in that game due to how much focus was put on the OW content, how well it was laid out to prevent 'fate training,' how it dynamically scaled in scope based on player count, and the variety of the content. If a hypothetical zone were opened up that anyone could go to and had POTD/HoH style leveling, and enough fates going on at once with a short enough time and dynamic scaling of difficulty and scope to prevent FATE training, which had relevant end game rewards, I think people would have a lot of fun with BLU.

Blu isn't per say bad (though as has been pointed out by many people its spells are often horribly artificially limited), it is just the content that supports it, and any other hypothetical Limited Job, doesn't exist yet. I actually want more limited jobs, because non-trinity jobs are super god damn fun and interesting. MMos with really non-traditional roles that could be highly exploited are fun: Look at SWG where your party might literally include someone who's only job was out of combat healing, or feeding you, or making sure you didn't get lost.

I just want something to exist to justify these jobs more than a lame solo puzzle-grind hybrid system. I would love if Blu ALSO got a 'DF preset' that could be used to let them become a 'main class' but that isn't as primary as making good non-DF content in my mind. Limited jobs aren't necessary for that content to exist, of course, but that content justifies limited jobs existing, and limited jobs are extremely interesting conceptually.

But also I 'main' DoH jobs so like... maybe my stance isn't exactly orthodox. I still just would love to have the ability to play a buffer/debuffer class that doesn't attack at all (mediator, maybe?) or someone who commands multiple pets at once.

[BubblyBoar]

Limited BLU is just DPS BLU. It isn't a tank or a healer. It lacks the necessary skills to do those two jobs properly. BLU is a caster DPS, even by FFXIV's rules because those are their role actions and that is the color of their icon. If they wanted it to be ALL ROLE, the icon would be gray.

[GenericMagus]

I find it funny how SE keeps talking about how unworkable BLU is and how it has to be Limited despite they're the ones who made it so in the first place.
Like spilling a drink on the floor, going about how bad it is and refusing to mop up, going "it's not my fault water is wet, maybe water shouldn't be wet," despite causing the problem and there's already something to keep it in. This expac has been nothing but recycling, rehash and problems after problems after problems with every content having a teething period and for it to always be a struggle. Makes it that Yoshi is out of touch with his own game.

Hardcore content is going to be a massive failure, and that even then there still won't be any relevancy to BLU because they'll purpously keep it undertuned for more work in future but being able to be lazy and do less work now.

[Physic]

Limited BLU is just DPS BLU. It isn't a tank or a healer. It lacks the necessary skills to do those two jobs properly. BLU is a caster DPS, even by FFXIV's rules because those are their role actions and that is the color of their icon. If they wanted it to be ALL ROLE, the icon would be gray.

blu doesnt fit into the duty finder paradigm. Its not every role, its its own type of thing. No dps has that heal power, no dps has that durability. No, it cant raise or esuna like healers, No it cant mitigate as well as a pure tank. But no dps even has the possibility of tanking, and no dps can output that much healing. Its clearly a hybrid

[Physic]

I find it funny how SE keeps talking about how unworkable BLU is and how it has to be Limited despite they're the ones who made it so in the first place.
Like spilling a drink on the floor, going about how bad it is and refusing to mop up, going "it's not my fault water is wet, maybe water shouldn't be wet," despite causing the problem and there's already something to keep it in. This expac has been nothing but recycling, rehash and problems after problems after problems with every content having a teething period and for it to always be a struggle. Makes it that Yoshi is out of touch with his own game.

Hardcore content is going to be a massive failure, and that even then there still won't be any relevancy to BLU because they'll purpously keep it undertuned for more work in future but being able to be lazy and do less work now.

they arent talking about how unworkable it is, they made it a limited job, because if they had to make a blue mage who doesnt learn skills hunting monsters, and doesnt have blue mage type spells, it may as well be a different job.