The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Erudito]

Personally I opt for the removal of hard enrages.

I vastly prefer soft enrages over hard ones as one can better measure ones self, the party and, if the skill is there, you can last longer through the enrage reducing some weight off the DPS issue, if even a little.

[Aramina]

Personally I opt for the removal of hard enrages.

I vastly prefer soft enrages over hard ones as one can better measure ones self, the party and, if the skill is there, you can last longer through the enrage reducing some weight off the DPS issue, if even a little.

My only problem with soft enrages is it potentially shifts the blame from dps to the healers. On one hand I prefer to have a better chance than a one shot, but on the other hand I don't want to be called out because someone couldn't damage their way out of a wet paper bag.

[Melichoir]

A soft enrage is jsut giving more forgiveness for lackluster mechanics or dps in a group, and I dont mean the DPS role. I mean broadly. A hard enrage is pretty much the "You didnt win in the time allotted, time to die and reset." Soft enrages are like "Well you guys look like your trying so here's a bit of extra time that if your healers are geared enough can live through (and even LB through if need be.)" Pretty much a soft enrage just means youre allowed to die and make more mistakes and still clear. Im not even a great raider and I dont want soft enrages to be the thing. I want hard enrages. I want the boss to say "Tough luck, now die." and one shot everyone.

And if we do a soft enrage thats only 10 seconds, then youre not buying much. Not many groups wipe at 1%. They either blow it out right, or clear it. From what I understand, btw, enrage timers dont punish bad DPS as much as playing badly. Meaning, as long as youre geared fairly good and do the mechanics right without deaths, youll beat enrage, or youll get close and have to be crafy. And if youre doing it all right and still hitting enrage, than a soft enrage wont save you. That's a gear/rotation issue. This is why when you see people talk about clears, its usually "Lets get to the enrage timer before we worry heavily about the dps", because the biggest impediment to clearing isnt "not havng enough dps", it's failing mechanics and being dead on the ground.

[Enla]

I think the only time in FF14 where I enjoyed a soft enrage was back when T2 was still relevant, but had gotten to the point where the soft enrage wasn't deadly towards the end. I vastly preferred the enraged version of the fight to the normal version, even if you had to basically sit and fall asleep at the start gate for it to work. Other than that? I feel like most of them just encourage bad behavior in the party and like Aramina said, just put more stress on the healers.

[linay]

A soft enrage is jsut giving more forgiveness for lackluster mechanics or dps in a group, and I dont mean the DPS role. I mean broadly. A hard enrage is pretty much the "You didnt win in the time allotted, time to die and reset." Soft enrages are like "Well you guys look like your trying so here's a bit of extra time that if your healers are geared enough can live through (and even LB through if need be.)" Pretty much a soft enrage just means youre allowed to die and make more mistakes and still clear. Im not even a great raider and I dont want soft enrages to be the thing. I want hard enrages. I want the boss to say "Tough luck, now die." and one shot everyone.

And if we do a soft enrage thats only 10 seconds, then youre not buying much. Not many groups wipe at 1%. They either blow it out right, or clear it. From what I understand, btw, enrage timers dont punish bad DPS as much as playing badly. Meaning, as long as youre geared fairly good and do the mechanics right without deaths, youll beat enrage, or youll get close and have to be crafy. And if youre doing it all right and still hitting enrage, than a soft enrage wont save you. That's a gear/rotation issue. This is why when you see people talk about clears, its usually "Lets get to the enrage timer before we worry heavily about the dps", because the biggest impediment to clearing isnt "not havng enough dps", it's failing mechanics and being dead on the ground.

That depends on how the soft enrage is designed. What I prefer is a soft enrage that starts the moment the fight begins, so it's not about giving extra time. Rather, it's functionally equivalent to a hard enrage in that it limits how much time you have to beat the boss. The difference is that, instead of suddenly ending a fight with one enrage attack, the fight simply gets progressively more difficult over time until it becomes impossible to do and the party wipes. One example would be having diminishing platform to stand on over time until there is no more platform and the party falls and wipes.

[SargentToughie]

Ya know, I appreciate this thread. The vindictive ideas that non-tank players have to try and slap tank players into tank stance are hilarious.

"Let's make bosses direct crit on the tank busters, to 1-shot tanks that aren't at 100% HP and in tank stance."
"Let's make DPS abilities reduce enmity."

You can almost feel the hate at tanks that hang out in DPS stance. It's fantastic.

Also just to remind you guys, if a soft enrage is tuned to the same level of difficulty as it's equivalent hard enrage, you're not getting any easier of an encounter. Demanding the revocation of Hard Enrages smacks of DPS players just demanding that they be able to float their way through more content without needing to put in effort.

And then there's the good ol' Rathalos reminder about what happens to encounters who don't have an enrage, or just have one that's so hilariously loose that it may as well be nonexistent. Remember that, everybody?

3 tanks and a WHM ahoy!

[linay]

Also just to remind you guys, if a soft enrage is tuned to the same level of difficulty as it's equivalent hard enrage, you're not getting any easier of an encounter. Demanding the revocation of Hard Enrages smacks of DPS players just demanding that they be able to float their way through more content without needing to put in effort.

How can you have a fight that is not any easier yet at the same time allows players to float their way through without needing to put in effort?

[Alucard135]

Sekiro does not need an easy mode.

[Paladinleeds]

Ya know, I appreciate this thread. The vindictive ideas that non-tank players have to try and slap tank players into tank stance are hilarious.

"Let's make bosses direct crit on the tank busters, to 1-shot tanks that aren't at 100% HP and in tank stance."

You can almost feel the hate at tanks that hang out in DPS stance. It's fantastic.

I actually do play tanks (just finished a dungeon as one, and have raided as one in the past). I also said that as just for tanks, but would also expect similar things for healers (my main). Like getting rid of oGCD heals, etc. Basically, make the primary role more interesting, instead of us being blue/green DPS. And the thing I bolded was my idea, so nice reach saying I'm a non-tank player. Also, I do go into DPS stance because it's optimal. Doesn't mean I agree with it. Try again.

[SargentToughie]

I actually do play tanks (just finished a dungeon as one, and have raided as one in the past). I also said that as just for tanks, but would also expect similar things for healers (my main). Like getting rid of oGCD heals, etc. Basically, make the primary role more interesting, instead of us being blue/green DPS. And the thing I bolded was my idea, so nice reach saying I'm a non-tank player. Also, I do go into DPS stance because it's optimal. Doesn't mean I agree with it. Try again.

I'm glad for you.

It doesn't make the idea any less horrible. You'd basically be gutting the only interesting parts of the roles, or the only parts that actually give the roles some kind of major agency, or skill ceiling. I could sit here and write paragraphs upon paragraphs as to why I feel this way, as I've done in the past. But it's not going to change anything. I'm not changing your mind. If you care about my opinions just go check my post history. You won't, nor would I expect you to, but the posts are there. I'm not going to re-tread old ground.

This whole argument is pointless. So you keep doing you, boo.