So What is Elidibus Planning (4.56 Spoilers)

[Bright-Flower]

Part of the reason I'm having a hard time getting invested in Elidibus wanting to bring balance is I feel like there's a lot of telling but not enough showing.

If there's too much light what does that MEAN? What are the signs of it? What are the effects of it? Is there really no middle ground between 'everything seems fine' and 'flood of light/dark'?

What causes things to tip towards light? What causes things to tip towards dark? It feels like the whole thing is just so vaguely defined, and if I don't understand how it works it's hard to care.

And then when he actually confronts us in the msq the whole thing felt anti climactic.

From what we've seen of ShB, we will see some stuff there. Like no night, the Light equivelant of voidsent, world ending etc. That's neat. But that's all on a world post flood of light. If we're really tipping the world out of balance on the Source, it would REALLY help me out if we saw some sort of consequence/warning signs of it and not just Elidibus flapping his lips.

[Daralii]

Part of the reason I'm having a hard time getting invested in Elidibus wanting to bring balance is I feel like there's a lot of telling but not enough showing.

If there's too much light what does that MEAN? What are the signs of it? What are the effects of it? Is there really no middle ground between 'everything seems fine' and 'flood of light/dark'?

What causes things to tip towards light? What causes things to tip towards dark? It feels like the whole thing is just so vaguely defined, and if I don't understand how it works it's hard to care.

And then when he actually confronts us in the msq the whole thing felt anti climactic.

From what we've seen of ShB, we will see some stuff there. Like no night, the Light equivelant of voidsent, world ending etc. That's neat. But that's all on a world post flood of light. If we're really tipping the world out of balance on the Source, it would REALLY help me out if we saw some sort of consequence/warning signs of it and not just Elidibus flapping his lips.

The Flood is still in progress on the First, with the zones we visit being the only known places that haven't been consumed by the perfect crystalline stasis that Arbert talked about. We also know from the Encyclopedia Eorzea that the Sin Eaters(or at least some, like Kuribu and the lion) are invaders from a different plane or world(likely where Ultima came from) considering the Amdapoori had encountered them.

[Bright-Flower]

The Flood is still in progress on the First, with the zones we visit being the only known places that haven't been consumed by the perfect crystalline stasis that Arbert talked about. We also know from the Encyclopedia Eorzea that the Sin Eaters(or at least some, like Kuribu and the lion) are invaders from a different plane or world(likely where Ultima came from) considering the Amdapoori had encountered them.

Yeah, my point is though is that if the Source is somehow in danger of suffering a flood of light because of us, it would be nice if we could actually see something. If it was explained how it's happening, what causes light to grow stronger vs dark, if we could see some early effects etc. What frustrates me is that we're being told balance has to be restored but we don't see any signs of that imbalance on the Source, and what we DO see is in a world that's been mostly overrun by Light already and almost entirely consumed by it except that one area.

It would just be nice to see some kind of build up to a flood of light in the Source to show us some of the danger and show that it is in fact something serious and imminent.

[ObsidianFire]

The main reason we don't see anything on the Source that seems to indicate that the Source is being overrun by light is because the Source actually isn't at risk to that yet. Instead, we do see evidence on the Source for an upcoming Calamity which is not the same thing as a Flood at all.

Furthermore, "balance between light and darkness" is a red herring Elidibus likes to use to get people to do what he wants them to do. None of the Shards (or the Source for that matter) have ever been balanced between light and dark. And extreme differences between the amount of light and darkness haven't caused any of the shards that have that to Flood. The 1st Shard would be a prime example of that. It has always had more light then darkness and it's only after 12,000 years of being in that sate that there is a slip-up and a Flood of Light starts. So someone has been doing something right on the 1st Shard to not cause it to Flood for all that time.

What we do know causes a Flood is if the amount of light or dark on a shard increases too quickly. On the 13th Shard, this happened when Igyorum's plans worked too well and the amount of darkness skyrocketed until a Flood of Darkness happened. The same thing happened on the 1st Shard when the WoD killed the Ascian Overlord of the 1st Shard. The Source might be headed in that direction if the WoL keeps winning all the time. However, with the WoL not on the Source for an expansion and becoming a Warrior of Darkness, the Source will probably never get to that point. At the very least, the upcoming 8th Calamity will probably happen before a Flood on the Source manages to becomeB an issue.

[Sathona]

Part of the reason I'm having a hard time getting invested in Elidibus wanting to bring balance is I feel like there's a lot of telling but not enough showing.

If there's too much light what does that MEAN? What are the signs of it? What are the effects of it? Is there really no middle ground between 'everything seems fine' and 'flood of light/dark'?

What causes things to tip towards light? What causes things to tip towards dark? It feels like the whole thing is just so vaguely defined, and if I don't understand how it works it's hard to care.

And then when he actually confronts us in the msq the whole thing felt anti climactic.

From what we've seen of ShB, we will see some stuff there. Like no night, the Light equivelant of voidsent, world ending etc. That's neat. But that's all on a world post flood of light. If we're really tipping the world out of balance on the Source, it would REALLY help me out if we saw some sort of consequence/warning signs of it and not just Elidibus flapping his lips.

Yshtola and the others noticed a thinning of aether across Eorzea and outside of Kugane. So i guess thats one evidence[?] Havent heard or seen of something else tbh so we arent as close to the flood or something similar just yet.

[Rosa_Frandlia]

Part of the reason I'm having a hard time getting invested in Elidibus wanting to bring balance is I feel like there's a lot of telling but not enough showing.

If there's too much light what does that MEAN? What are the signs of it? What are the effects of it? Is there really no middle ground between 'everything seems fine' and 'flood of light/dark'?

What causes things to tip towards light? What causes things to tip towards dark? It feels like the whole thing is just so vaguely defined, and if I don't understand how it works it's hard to care.

And then when he actually confronts us in the msq the whole thing felt anti climactic.

From what we've seen of ShB, we will see some stuff there. Like no night, the Light equivelant of voidsent, world ending etc. That's neat. But that's all on a world post flood of light. If we're really tipping the world out of balance on the Source, it would REALLY help me out if we saw some sort of consequence/warning signs of it and not just Elidibus flapping his lips.

On an Alt I saw the the first meeting with Elidibus and something that he said that was confusing to us and Minfilia at the time made a whole lot of sense now. He said "These lands, the people, the world- All shall change soon. As it was, so shall it be again"

With what Varis told us then, I think that tells us exactly what Elidibus is up to.

[Jyera]

Yshtola and the others noticed a thinning of aether across Eorzea and outside of Kugane. So i guess thats one evidence[?] Havent heard or seen of something else tbh so we arent as close to the flood or something similar just yet.

Yeah. Matoya's broom enchantments also start fizzling out, and she remarks on it, in 4.5.

[Raiya]

Let's put it this way: Elidibus is still an enigma in all this, he clearly wishes for Zodiark's return BUT is clearly not in the same mind as the rest of the ascians, he even care's little if Varis were to start whacking em all. My guess is HE'S the standout from the rest of the Ascians who likely only want their return of their master and general chaos but unlike the rest he's got reason and motivation to do so and it likely involves repairing the damage of the original sundering 12000 years ago not some world domination scheme as such. He also may have far more honorable intentions as well as his actions seem to be a means to an end unlike the others which seem to only care about causing as much chaos as possible. He currently only has tried to kill us because he see's us as a threat right now since it's implied were a heavily light based entity thanks to Hydalen and were unknowingly having some influence on the balance.

Right now we still dont know the full extent of the rift between Hydalen and Zodiark only that Hydalen banished Zodiark because he coveted more power. However what we lack is WHY did he suddenly want more power, was it self interest or something else?
Who are the ascians exactly even? They supposedly spread chaos but WHY? Are they possibly member's of the original world prior to the sundering that were set adrift in the sundering and are trying to revive Zodiark to restore themselves?
Why is the aether thinning on the source? Is it another calamity or is an imminent flood? Is the Flood of Light on the 1st which is meant to be close to the source actually intruding on the source itself because of its proximity?
Our actions to the Ascians seem to be damaging but how exactly? We fix problems that have been festering for ages (Defeating Gaius's toy, Whacking Nidhogg the Burninator, Kicking the Garlean Squatters out of Eorzea and Doma and using "omae wa mou shindeiru" on every unlucky primal that walks into our path) but ultimately how does helping people actually bring about the apocalypse.

Ultimately do we actually end up at least talking to Zodiark during shadowbringers and finding out what his reasons are for all this? Do we get a "blessing of darkness" to compliment the "blessing of light" or something? How will Elidibus fit into all this or will he even remain our enemy if it turns out he's the only sane one and the rest of the Ascians are crazy nutjobs like Solus who are likely a problem that needs to be removed.

[YianKutku]

and using "omae wa mou shindeiru" on every unlucky primal that walks into our path

General reminder that Elidibus literally suggested to Arbert that provoking Beast Tribes to summon Primals, and then slaying them, is a decent way to cause a Calamity on the Source.

Also general reminder that Elidibus in Zenos's body manipulated Asahi into presenting a weak Primal in front of us, which we were expected to kill (rather than Tsukuyomi killing us).

If Elidibus is really so concerned about balance on the Source, clearly us killing Primals is not an issue.

[Anonymoose]

Be careful not to conflate two different approaches.

The cornerstone of Ascian meddling is spreading knowledge of specific summoning techniques. These techniques are convincing in the short term and it tends to get overlooked how disastrous they are in the big picture until it's too late. The resulting entities are usually unbound, think they are what they were summoned to be, and create new memories in the aether that are forever there to be harnessed. They universally require vast quantities of aether to maintain physical form. Often, their very aura burns away the mind and will of those nearly, assuming they don't deliberately bathe you in a concentrated dose. The Knowledge of the Paragons is a feedback loop that creates idols (or...icons) and people to worship them while killing the planet.

Typically, the goal is to just throw the techniques into the wind and whatever happens happens. Mankind is whimsical and innovative and wont to rationalize or justify even their worst actions. It'll get to a Calamity eventually, whether tempered nations bring their eikons to bear against one another or primal summoners go to war against those who refuse. The feedback loop guarantees it. If you believe in a god, and god manifests through your doing, and is sustained by your doing, and god falls ... it's not god's fault; it's your fault. More crystals and needed. Stronger faith is needed. More worshippers are needed.

Lahabrea tried to use the Warrior of Light as a short-cut, having them wander around inspiring the beast tribes to summon more powerful incarnations sooner than average and shave a few years off the required time.

Elidibus and the Warriors of Darkness were trying to do it backwards. The beast tribes were supposed to perform the grandest summonings of which they were capable, creating incarnations of their gods that were stronger than all who came before, and the Warriors of Darkness were to put them down with ease and style. It wasn't about killing the primals to inspire stronger commitment, it was about utterly breaking their faith so that it could be redirected to something else. That's why they're so annoyed that you keep meddling and causing very weak primals to be summoned instead.

The big question is what did Elidibus want them to have faith in, instead? Who was this new god?

Was it merely an as-of-yet un-invented primal superseding the limitations of the elemental primordials; all the beast tribes of Eorzea united with one god against one empire?

Or...