Genderlock reminder to SE

[DarkEiraStar]

If anyone hasn't seen Mr. Happy's interview with Yoshi-P, I highly recommend it.

I think it goes without saying that putting in a Race or Job takes a lot of resources. But based on how many new jobs we've gotten versus races, it seem fairly clear that races take more resources than jobs.

They haven't said that we'll never get Male Viera or Female Hrothgar, and I think that is the best you can hope for at the moment. There are literally thousands of pieces of armor in the game now, all that have to be fitted to each unique body. All the hairstyles that have to be fitted to each head shape. All the new animations + the existing animations.

[WaterShield]

You're kind of moving the goalpost, they are two separate resources on two separate divisions. It's not about whether someone is idle or not, it's about whether it directly conflicts with the work flow of OTHER divisions such as background modeling, combat balance or animation enough that content would be OUTRIGHT canceled or delayed which again content already in pre-production will not be and if it is it is mostly likely for a seperate reason (See DNC and New Healer or WAR fixes and Eureka being delayed). Which is not an assumption that can be made nor can you make the assumption that one division working on say enemy models for the 24 man raid will stop what they are doing to work on racial models, as the team that works on racial models to our knowledge could be a separate team that works on enemy or character models.

It just isn't a realistic statement to make that for sure content "MAY" be canceled, it's just irrational for the reasons I've reiterated before with ishgard housing and other things. if your personal opinion is that it is a waste of resources, again that is fine but stating it as a fact leads multiple holes in your reasoning, it implies they have one singular team that focuses on one content at a time and then moves on to the next content in order, which is an inefficient way of working.

The issue is you implying ALL RESOURCES currently devoted to other projects will be placed on working on racial genders, leading to them being delayed/cancelled which is just not how game development works. When one project begins another division does not stop working, likewise when one project ENDS a division does not stop working.

Multi-tasking and assigning multiple staff to multiple projects being worked on at the same time exist, money is not directly allocated into projects unless they are something like a fanfestival. Either way again there's no reason to get into that as the statement "If they work on the genders we won't get new content" is not substantiated by anything Yoshida has said, he simply stated that it is a taxing undertaking not that they will outright cancel content for it.

I am not implying anything. I am clearly stating that the team responsible for female Viera and male Hrothgar will be moved to another project once the work is completed... or will need to find employment elsewhere. If they are not moved to another project it is wasted money as they are now doing nothing. If they are let go that frees up money to hire people to create other things within the same limited budget. If they are tasked with creating male Viera and female Hrothgar that is now money being spent that is taken from the budget. Outside of Square allocating additional funding to 14 (unlikely) this results in a sacrifice being made in order to make them.

Whether or not people care more about them being made than potential other content being made is up to them. I believe I have more than made my case as to why this WILL lead to something else not happening IF they decide to appease the people who DESPERATELY need male Viera and female Hrothgar in the game.

[MrKimper]

snip

Your case is flimsy you can make it but again there's nothing to substantiate the idea that it will cause content to be canceled outright, especially when the director himself has not implied anything to that effect. Moving the goal post from "Well x that was working on y will now work on z but if they have to do genders then z will be cancelled" is an inflammatory statement, with no real basis. Your argument is again essentially "The team cannot multi-task and must throw enough members on racial models to cancel active content that I'm not sure event exists."

Making this now about...employment and project availability is a deflection at the end of the day, when again we have no idea who works on what or who is assigned to work on what. Again to draw a comparison, do you believe mog station items cause development to be pushed back or projects to be cancelled? do you think the whale mount means we're not getting a potential story mount?

It's wild speculation at best, and again as I'll reiterate the money invested in projects most likely already in development like 24-mans and 8-mans won't be effected because it's unlikely they were not being worked on at the same time as racial genders. Again you're implying that certain content will be cancelled based on two assumption.

1) The resources given to them is great enough to pull multiple staff members from different sides of development and cause CURRENT 5.0 Content to be discontinued. Which again is not feasible.

2) That FUTURE 6.0 content will be cancelled because resources are directed towards adding racial genders. Which again is speculation akin to Ishgard housing taking away from a new EX or raid for 6.0, and doesn't have enough to substantiate it as well as not even knowing what content it would be, AS WELL as multiple instances of content being cancelled during the conceptualization phase (Ala Blue mage unlimited)

Therefore it is not a reasonable assumption that content future or currently planned will suffer enough to be CANCELLED because of this, your argument about allocating staff is irrelevant to this for the reasons I have stated. I mean hrothgar and viera aren't even done yet apparently so even stating they've STOPPED working on the races is incorrect.

It's speculation again to say their contribution to any content that they may be reassigned to was enough that it would cause sweeping delays, and it's a fallacy to assume they are working on one aspect of development at a time.

EDIT: About firing I doubt they would fire core staff, to begin with SQUARE and the XIV dev team has it hard enough to fill in much needed positions with MMO's not being a favorable genre to work in, so saying they would fire a 3D modeler without actual significant due cause is a ridiculous accusation to say the least.

[WaterShield]

Your case is flimsy you can make it but again there's nothing to substantiate the idea that it will cause content to be canceled outright, especially when the director himself has not implied anything to that effect. Moving the goal post from "Well x that was working on y will now work on z but if they have to do genders then z will be cancelled" is an inflammatory statement, with no real basis. Your argument is again essentially "The team cannot multi-task and must throw enough members on racial models to cancel active content that I'm not sure event exists."

Making this now about...employment and project availability is a deflection at the end of the day, when again we have no idea who works on what or who is assigned to work on what. Again to draw a comparison, do you believe mog station items cause development to be pushed back or projects to be cancelled? do you think the whale mount means we're not getting a potential story mount?

It's wild speculation at best, and again as I'll reiterate the money invested in projects most likely already in development like 24-mans and 8-mans won't be effected because it's unlikely they were not being worked on at the same time as racial genders. Again you're implying that certain content will be cancelled based on two assumption.

1) The resources given to them is great enough to pull multiple staff members from different sides of development and cause CURRENT 5.0 Content to be discontinued. Which again is not feasible.

2) That FUTURE 6.0 content will be cancelled because resources are directed towards adding racial genders. Which again is speculation akin to Ishgard housing taking away from a new EX or raid for 6.0, and doesn't have enough to substantiate it as well as not even knowing what content it would be, AS WELL as multiple instances of content being cancelled during the conceptualization phase (Ala Blue mage unlimited)

Therefore it is not a reasonable assumption that content future or currently planned will suffer enough to be CANCELLED because of this, your argument about allocating staff is irrelevant to this for the reasons I have stated. I mean hrothgar and viera aren't even done yet apparently so even stating they've STOPPED working on the races is incorrect.

It's speculation again to say their contribution to any content that they may be reassigned to was enough that it would cause sweeping delays, and it's a fallacy to assume they are working on one aspect of development at a time.

Well I'm sad to say I thought we were making progress but now know I have wasted my time. Good day. I'll just take what other people have been stating in the opposite direction.

If male Viera and female Hrothgar are added to the game it will detract from my experience enough that I will end my sub. I don't need to convince anyone here anyway because this is supposed to be a soapbox thread right?

Time to pack it up everyone we're done here.

[MrKimper]

snip

Do as you please, added genders or not, there's nothing that's making me give up gunbreaker. Pre-order on LOCK.

[reivaxe]

We have had an unbiased poll though. At least in terms of which race is more desired than the other, also content won't be cut, all Yoshida said was that it was resource and time intensive, nowhere in any statement did he say it would result in x or y content being cut. That's just a boogeyman tactic, that's like saying gunbreaker was added so they had to cut potential gathering content, or vice versa.

No, he has said many times now that with their current work flow this is all they can handle and still release content at the pace they are. That means that he and his team ( who know by now what it takes to make and release content in a timely manner) don't see themselves being able to continue at this pace well also supporting more base models.

This is important seeing as the steady flow of content keeps people coming back. So yeah, by his own words he's saying that as things are now somethings gonna be negatively affected.

[MrKimper]

No, he has said many times now that with their current work flow this is all they can handle and still release content at the pace they are. That means that he and his team ( who know by now what it takes to make and release content in a timely manner) don't see themselves being able to continue at this pace well also supporting more base models.

This is important seeing as the steady flow of content keeps people coming back. So yeah, by his own words he's saying that as things are now somethings gonna be negatively affected.

Incorrect, he simply stated it's a large amount of resources due to the lack of optimization on how they restructure gear, never that it would negatively effect or cause content to be cancelled. As I've stated it's a fallacy to assume we would be getting content already in pre-production cancelled, such as the 24 or 8 mans as they are mostly likely being developed parallel to other projects. His statement was that releasing 2 full races AT LAUNCH would have been difficult with their current workflow.

Ergo it's presumptuous to assume this equates full stop to content already in development being cancelled, when it has not been stated but inferred, on top of that we know that whoever's working on the races will continue working on them for helmet fixes, so they won't be reassigned if we continuously infer that they will only release that sometime during 5.1 which iiiis when the 8 man raids should be out.

[reivaxe]

So why are we including the people who don't care one way or another into the equation? :v I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't see the relevance. In general the majority isn't going to care about anything. The majority didn't care about the 1.0 genderlocks either. There were even less topics about those races than there are about the new ones. The fact there is a sizable number of people speaking out about the issue is significant in and of itself.

1- this game is much bigger than it was back then. I can't say anything about how much people cared about anything back then but yeah, WAY more people playing prob increases the number of people who bother going to the forums over time.

2- these people are paying players who come back to the game month by month (or however often they sub) for a diverse list of reasons. If by large most of them don't care much about getting something that WILL put added stress and strain on the dev team going forward and slow down content releases then yeah, that should and will be something the team thinks about. Just like how he said they're looking at the temperature of the demand. Saying some drive by support post like " yeah, that Would be cool" prob ranks low on the scale.

So the faction of a fraction of the fan base being vocal about wanting something that will effect everyone should not be the be all end all of decisions. Heck, the non English speaking side of this very forum doesn't makr this nearly as big of a deal.

[Acesfool]

Genderlock reminder to SE. The majority of players couldn't care less about it. Please stick to your guns and call the bluff of those threatening to quit over it.

[xbahax92]

Genderlock reminder to SE. The majority of players couldn't care less about it. Please stick to your guns and call the bluff of those threatening to quit over it.

Because thats what SE wants, scare away long-term subscibers.