Genderlock reminder to SE

[WaterShield]

We have had an unbiased poll though. At least in terms of which race is more desired than the other, also content won't be cut, all Yoshida said was that it was resource and time intensive, nowhere in any statement did he say it would result in x or y content being cut. That's just a boogeyman tactic, that's like saying gunbreaker was added so they had to cut potential gathering content, or vice versa.

No it's simple logic considering a finite resource. If you use it for one thing... you by default are ending the possibility of using it on something else.... because it has already been consumed.

[MrKimper]

No it's simple logic considering a finite resource. If you use it for one thing... you by default are ending the possibility of using it on something else.... because it has already been consumed.

Again, it's a fallacy because that's essentially saying all content comes at the cost of others, they aren't going to cancel content in the pipeline for modeling. That isn't feasible or logical to assume in the slightest, especially based off of what Yoshida has said himself, that line of thought is just meant to incite irrational hostility. Again it's like people blaming BLU for why there weren't any ultimates, content released will already have been in the pipeline to begin with, they will not cancel content already prepared to be released. At most it'll be delayed by a patch like diadem and eureka were(for reasons we weren't made aware of aside from bug testing) but they will not be canceled.

Any content for the patches is already in pre-production most likely.

[WaterShield]

Again, it's a fallacy because that's essentially saying all content comes at the cost of others, they aren't going to cancel content in the pipeline for modeling. That isn't feasible or logical to assume in the slightest, especially based off of what Yoshida has said himself, that line of thought is just meant to incite irrational hostility. Again it's like people blaming BLU for why there weren't any ultimates, content released will already have been in the pipeline to begin with, they will not cancel content already prepared to be released. At most it'll be delayed by a patch like diadem and eureka were(for reasons we weren't made aware of aside from bug testing) but they will not be canceled.

Any content for the patches is already in pre-production most likely.

I'm not suggesting they will cancel things already in development... those can be considered other parts of the finite resource already spent. It will 100% effect what "MAY" have been added to the game but would not be approved due to funds being allocated to this instead.

As I do not care about male Viera or female Hrothgar, I do not support their inclusion as I would rather have literally anything else done with the budget.

[MrKimper]

I'm not suggesting they will cancel things already in development... those can be considered other parts of the finite resource already spent. It will 100% effect what "MAY" have been added to the game but would not be approved due to funds being allocated to this instead.

That speculation however, we have no way of knowing what they have planned to release, again you could say that...for everything. Ishgard housing "MAY" have taken away from new eureka housing, Gunbreaker "MAY" have taken away from a healing job being added, DRk reworks "MAY" take away from scholar reworks. Egi-glamours "MAY" take away from new lords of verminion content.

My key point is that that speculation isn't constructive as it relies on imaginary content that we "MAY" not have gotten because of the other races--but like BLU with ultimate it could just be because of a separately related issue, I'm sure content has been canceled for other reasons than another content taking priority. Dev interest, Resource burden, Good concept bad execution. Multitudes of things.

Edit: that's fine, my statement is that your argument for it causing cancellation of content is a fallacy. Now if in your "OPINION" you believe it is a waste of resources, that's something I can't argue with, as it is your opinion.

[WaterShield]

That speculation however, we have no way of knowing what they have planned to release, again you could say that...for everything. Ishgard housing "MAY" have taken away from new eureka housing, Gunbreaker "MAY" have taken away from a healing job being added, DRk reworks "MAY" take away from scholar reworks. Egi-glamours "MAY" take away from new lords of verminion content.

My key point is that that speculation isn't constructive as it relies on imaginary content that we "MAY" not have gotten because of the other races--but like BLU with ultimate it could just be because of a separately related issue, I'm sure content has been canceled for other reasons than another content taking priority. Dev interest, Resource burden, Good concept bad execution. Multitudes of things.

Edit: that's fine, my statement is that your argument for it causing cancellation of content is a fallacy. Now if in your "OPINION" you believe it is a waste of resources, that's something I can't argue with, as it is your opinion.

Yes it is a waste of resources in my opinion (which I am not going to attempt to get you to agree to). I don't think Blu can be compared to races being added as they come at an astronomically higher cost. Blu was a mini game afforded little resources in its current iteration.

So I see adding male viera and female hrothgar as having a larger drain on resources and therefore a larger impact on the pipeline.

Edit: Also Square did say the reason we got female only Viera and male only Hrothgar is because they felt adding male Viera and female Hrothgar as well would be too much. They did what they did in order to please as many people as they felt they could while still keeping the same amount of content coming.

[MrKimper]

Yes it is a waste of resources in my opinion (which I am not going to attempt to get you to agree to). I don't think Blu can be compared to races being added as they come at an astronomically higher cost. Blu was a mini game afforded little resources in its current iteration.

So I see adding male viera and female hrothgar as having a larger drain on resources and therefore a larger impact on the pipeline.

Again I disagree, I can respect that insight but to me I believe a job like BLU which is already planned future support in the way of unique content, spell animations, balance and probably some sort of BLU duty finder along with it's own AF gear. Most likely (to my knowledge) took more developmental time than racial modeling, at least I believe modeling does not take up the same amount of dev hands that something like BLU, Ultimate or 24 man raids would take up. The only feasible issue would be QA testing time.

But again that's my take.

Edit: It wasn't about content it was about the work burden of modeling new gear for new races as well as the dev teams desire to add in a beastial race. Nowhere did they say "Well if we didn't do this we wouldn't have gotten 24 mans or 8 mans, we would have canceled content" Yoshida stated "If we did this we wouldn't have been able to have 2 races" this implies the racial modeling division is different from the background/enemy modeling division but connected to the gear modeling division as they aren't optimized to be separated faculties yet.

[WaterShield]

Again I disagree, I can respect that insight but to me I believe a job like BLU which is already planned future support in the way of unique content, spell animations, balance and probably some sort of BLU duty finder along with it's own AF gear. Most likely (to my knowledge) took more developmental time than racial modeling, at least I believe modeling does not take up the same amount of dev hands that something like BLU, Ultimate or 24 man raids would take up. The only feasible issue would be QA testing time.

But again that's my take.

So what people don't account for, is that when you add a race you have many things to account for modeling wise. Every piece of gear that existed before needs to be adapted to the new models. Every new piece of gear from here on out will also be more work to implement, because they need more versions of it to work properly for each race. These things add up to an exponential increase in dev costs. 1 Job and its queues is nothing in comparison.

TLDR each new racial model is a massive commitment to more work for the life of the game.


"Edit: It wasn't about content it was about the work burden of modeling new gear for new races as well as the dev teams desire to add in a beastial race. Nowhere did they say "Well if we didn't do this we wouldn't have gotten 24 mans or 8 mans, we would have canceled content" Yoshida stated "If we did this we wouldn't have been able to have 2 races" this implies the racial modeling division is different from the background/enemy modeling division but connected to the gear modeling division as they aren't optimized to be separated faculties yet. "

It would have meant they would have just done Male and Female Hrothgar... and the same amount of resources would have been spent as what we're getting now. Doing both male and female of both races was never on the table.

[LaylaTsarra]

Yes it is a waste of resources in my opinion (which I am not going to attempt to get you to agree to). I don't think Blu can be compared to races being added as they come at an astronomically higher cost. Blu was a mini game afforded little resources in its current iteration.

So I see adding male viera and female hrothgar as having a larger drain on resources and therefore a larger impact on the pipeline.

Edit: Also Square did say the reason we got female only Viera and male only Hrothgar is because they felt adding male Viera and female Hrothgar as well would be too much. They did what they did in order to please as many people as they felt they could while still keeping the same amount of content coming.

I agree.

It's pretty reasonable to believe that the funding for races was allocated along with the resources for a male and female race. It's hard to say how long they've been working on these additions but the team has pretty clearly indicated that 1) these are the last races we would be getting, and 2) that it's a tremendous amount of work to adjust all the gear for them which will only be compounded when having to adjust all the gear added in 5.0. I think the fact that the headgear won't be ready for launch supports how difficult it is to do.

I think it is also reasonable to believe that adding two additional genders (equivalent to one race) would require quite a bit of additional resources and the time and work needed to produce them would require additional funds that would need to come from somewhere. The question is will SE give the FFIV team additional funds to produce them or will they be required to make due with their current funding and resources available. We obviously don't know that but in lieu of additional monies other content that could have been produced will have to suffer.