Genderlock reminder to SE

[hynaku]

Probably because those genders existed but just weren't playable.

Male Viera and Female Ronso LITERALLY do not exist, they do not have a model, they will not be in Shadowbringer.

ffx had 2 female ronso I believe on blitzball team. So there is models for them. Irga Ronso sure was a female ronso from blitzball team.

[Rhomagus]

Calling it a genderlock is quite the misnomer and is misleading in what would actually need to happen.

Specifically with how the OP worded it, there is no "removal" of the genderlock. It's not like they have the female Hrothgar and male Viera already made and are just putting it on the backburner. Yes there is concept art of male Viera but that doesn't mean there's a playable iteration sitting somewhere on the cutting room floor.

There is no gender "lock" therefore it cannot be "removed" or "unlocked". They would need to actually make, committing development time, these two new genders for each race. As has already been stated by Yoshi-P in interviews, the game now has 10's of thousands of pieces of gear that would need to be refitted to these genders. So asking it to be "unlocked" just isn't going to happen.

On the other hand, asking these genders to be "implemented" into the game is a more appropriate request, as that more accurately provides both a reasoned request and tempers audience expectations, as some in this thread believe that you can just make and implement character models into a 9 year old game and have it ready before the next expansion is released. That's definitely unreasonable by any rational standard.

You will not get these genders before 5.0, as far as we know, they're not there. You probably will not get them during 5.0. It would be a first and they have plenty more pressing issues such as new gear implementation (which makes this job even longer), and other character model design issues.

I want to see male Viera and female Hrothgar as well. I also want to play as them, but making irrational demands is not going to speed the process up, and I would rather they make what we already have better and implement these new genders correctly for 6.0 as that would give them the time they need to implement such a monumental request.

[Melichoir]

...Male viera take it to a whole other level, and no change in the forest or anything would change the lore. The lore prior to Shadowbringers is that no one sees them at any point in time. That lore would still exist to every player that has yet to reach at the very least the 5.0 MSQ.

Best of my recollection, the only lore about male Viera in FFXIV is hearsay from a background NPC. That's it. That is, by and large, flimsy lore on quite a few accounts. First, from the dev side of things, they literally had the similar kind of lore for male miqote, and here we are, years later, wtih male miqotes running around doing stuff. So to say the lore is 'concrete' and the devs have no way to change it is a pretty weak position.

A second point, from the dev position, is the devs have already stated that even in game NPCs can be wrong about lore. Meaning, some background NPC talking about male viera doesnt make it the 'word of god' and therefore inexplicably unquestionable. So there's that. And lastly, even the lore GIVEN from the NPC is also very limited and written in a fashion that can easily allow for change. As many people have already said, only a fwe one liners can change whether or not we see male viera, and those explanations are extremely plausible in FFXIV. And consistency isnt a good point, btw, because we dont see RDMs or SAMs until lvl 50+ content technically but I can run into them in dungeons where the game literally states "gather other adventurers to help you". This implies REALLY heavily that for a samurai to be in your party, theyre there. Same with DRK, or any other post ARR classes. Theres going to be some wierd inconsistencies with added facets. That's just accepted. I mean how do you explain Fantasia? A magic potion which changes your appearance and retroactively alters the memories of all existence (including demi gods) to remember you that way? Really then.

And before the "Well IN FFXI/TACTICS/ETC", just stop. Those are separate games and unless otherwise directly stated from the devs, their lore isnt our lore in FFXIV. The only lore that matters to FFXIV is the lore in FFXIV for FFXIV. That's it. Bringing up lore from other games to explain a separate game is like using lore about elves from one fantasy novle to explain lore about elves in a completley unrelated novel. They borrow general ideas, but they're not the same.

Snip Snip

Youre arguing semantics. I explained this. Genderlock is in reference to player position, not dev position, where players are 'locked' into one gender upon choosing the race. Stop trying to redefine it. Even if were all talking to the same end goal, redefining what people mean when they say genderlock is unproductive and doesn't do anything to push the conversation forward. In this case, its attempting to derail the conversation rather than address the crux of the issue.

[Wynn_Storm]

The two are not one and the same. They obviously exist in the lore and have been acknowledged by the developers of various FF games. And female Ronsos were shown in the game they're from, weren't they?
And to be fair, we also don't know if male Viera don't have a model. We know they were considered alongside Au Ra for HW and have a concept art, we don't know that that process didn't involve a model, just that if it did, we haven't seen it.

Just to be clear FF14's lore is different from other game's lore. Just because they existed in other FF games doesn't mean they exist in FF14. Do people forget that each FF game is a stand alone story that is completely separate from the other FF games? I mean aside fom X-2 and 13-2, and lightning returns.

Also concept art doesn't equal models.

ffx had 2 female ronso I believe on blitzball team. So there is models for them. Irga Ronso sure was a female ronso from blitzball team.

FFX is separate from FF14, two completely different games, and lore.

That being said just because they had models in FFX doesn't mean they would look exactly the same. They could look totally different if they are ever made in FF14.


I'm just trying to say existing in other games, doesn't mean they exist in FF14.

[Corue]

Probably because those genders existed but just weren't playable.

Male Viera and Female Ronso LITERALLY do not exist, they do not have a model, they will not be in Shadowbringer.

Here's one for ya.

[MPK]

Here's one for ya.

That exists in FFXIV? You can't simply just copy and paste models from other games and expect it to work in FFXIV.

[Melichoir]

Also concept art doesn't equal models.

We actually dont know what the devs have. Not saying they do, but rather that we dont know what the devs have. So it's somewhat of a moot argument to say they dont have models. Far as I know, we dont know that.

FFX is separate from FF14, two completely different games, and lore.

That being said just because they had models in FFX doesn't mean they would look exactly the same. They could look totally different if they are ever made in FF14.

I'm just trying to say existing in other games, doesn't mean they exist in FF14.

This point also means that any lore outside of FFXIV can be discredited when it comes to male viera. So if we just focus on what lore there is, there isnt much to go on. Makes it real easy to introduce them into the game.

[Zsolen]

I said changing male viera lore was much mor damaging to lore than any other race and sex combination. The one npc is not the only one that does not see them. No one except the females ever sees them. Fantasia is not lore breaking, since you could assume one was always that race and sex, as long as the combination is plausible. I'm not making excuses for SE's poor management of job lore, but an AST in an ARR dungeon really is not all that weird. I's not my job to defend SE's poor lore decisions.

Maybe I am not explaining myself right, because people are thinking I am saying things that I do not believe I have ever said.

[Rhomagus]

Best of my recollection, the only lore about male Viera in FFXIV is hearsay from a background NPC. That's it. That is, by and large, flimsy lore on quite a few accounts. First, from the dev side of things, they literally had the similar kind of lore for male miqote, and here we are, years later, wtih male miqotes running around doing stuff. So to say the lore is 'concrete' and the devs have no way to change it is a pretty weak position.

A second point, from the dev position, is the devs have already stated that even in game NPCs can be wrong about lore. Meaning, some background NPC talking about male viera doesnt make it the 'word of god' and therefore inexplicably unquestionable. So there's that. And lastly, even the lore GIVEN from the NPC is also very limited and written in a fashion that can easily allow for change. As many people have already said, only a fwe one liners can change whether or not we see male viera, and those explanations are extremely plausible in FFXIV. And consistency isnt a good point, btw, because we dont see RDMs or SAMs until lvl 50+ content technically but I can run into them in dungeons where the game literally states "gather other adventurers to help you". This implies REALLY heavily that for a samurai to be in your party, theyre there. Same with DRK, or any other post ARR classes. Theres going to be some wierd inconsistencies with added facets. That's just accepted. I mean how do you explain Fantasia? A magic potion which changes your appearance and retroactively alters the memories of all existence (including demi gods) to remember you that way? Really then.

And before the "Well IN FFXI/TACTICS/ETC", just stop. Those are separate games and unless otherwise directly stated from the devs, their lore isnt our lore in FFXIV. The only lore that matters to FFXIV is the lore in FFXIV for FFXIV. That's it. Bringing up lore from other games to explain a separate game is like using lore about elves from one fantasy novle to explain lore about elves in a completley unrelated novel. They borrow general ideas, but they're not the same.



Youre arguing semantics. I explained this. Genderlock is in reference to player position, not dev position, where players are 'locked' into one gender upon choosing the race. Stop trying to redefine it. Even if were all talking to the same end goal, redefining what people mean when they say genderlock is unproductive and doesn't do anything to push the conversation forward. In this case, its attempting to derail the conversation rather than address the crux of the issue.

I'm not going to have you tell me what is unproductive and what isn't. I was addressing the OP not you. I am well aware of what a "Genderlock" is and what it refers to. Unfortunately, demanding these things to be implemented without expecting a reasonable timeframe is obviously apparent in this thread. It's not happening prior to release, though there are some that seem to have their hopes as having that being a feasible possibility. It isn't.

This is why we are "arguing semantics" because people are arguing as if there is a literal "lock" on the genders, and the OP suggests that as such.

I'm not redefining anything, as I'm aware of the term, but it's obviously being misused to put unnecessary pressure on the development team.

We don't even need new races, but we got them, enjoy what is available or make a reasonable request to have something developed and implemented.

Even if it's "player position" don't act like the reality of the implementation has anything to do with "unlocking" or "removing a lock" and not actually committing development resources to make it happen, as that is the most pragmatic means to which to make the request.

The crux of the issue is that the development team decided to give us two races rather than one race with two genders. They made that choice based on audience feedback wanting both Viera and a more Beastial race.

In know way is this a derail, but a tempering of expectations and it absolutely is necessary in order to provide a reasonable request so that we not only move the conversation forward, which is peppered in plenty of other threads on these very forums, but to actually get them implemented.

[Wynn_Storm]

Here's one for ya.

Okay now show me a FF14 ronso model.

I'll wait..

Oh right, you can't.

Because no female ronso model exists in FF14

That's literally the whole point of my argument.

This point also means that any lore outside of FFXIV can be discredited when it comes to male viera. So if we just focus on what lore there is, there isnt much to go on. Makes it real easy to introduce them into the game.

I was always under the assumption that none of the other games mattered when it comes to a new FF game.

The lore, the characters, the races, are all new and unique to that FF game.

And it has been that way. Even if races from one FF game were put into another, they had their own lore for that new game to explain why that race is there and exist.

That being said, yes they could make up their own lore for male viera in the future.

In conclusion, its far too early to tell a single thing. Everyone is just literally throwing out speculations.

I am, and others as well.