Genderlock reminder to SE

[Mutemutt]

Why are we suddenly redefining a word that's been used to describe races with only one playable gender since 1.0? is this advanced trolling?

I mean, it has suddenly become much more relevant and is kind of a misnomer.

[Wynn_Storm]

Why are we suddenly redefining a word that's been used to describe races with only one playable gender since 1.0? is this advanced trolling?

Probably because those genders existed but just weren't playable.

Male Viera and Female Ronso LITERALLY do not exist, they do not have a model, they will not be in Shadowbringer.

[xbahax92]

Why are we suddenly redefining a word that's been used to describe races with only one playable gender since 1.0? is this advanced trolling?

Collecting likes

[BillyKaplan]

LITERALLY do not exist, they do not have a model

The two are not one and the same. They obviously exist in the lore and have been acknowledged by the developers of various FF games. And female Ronsos were shown in the game they're from, weren't they?
And to be fair, we also don't know if male Viera don't have a model. We know they were considered alongside Au Ra for HW and have a concept art, we don't know that that process didn't involve a model, just that if it did, we haven't seen it.

they will not be in Shadowbringer.

Not at launch at least, but in general? Remains to be seen.

[whiskeybravo]

People call it a "genderlocked" race because the race itself is locked to one gender. So, when people shorten it to talking about "the genderlock", that's what they're usually talking about.

That's fine for people in the circle with which these things are discussed. For people outside of that circle, you'd like to form a proper idea inside their head, which is why language is very important. Again, instead of respectively asking SE to create something that the community desires, it's insultingly framed as "Remove the genderlock".

[Madiera]

It is still breaking more lore. The only thing you can argue with certain jobs is that the others are conjurers, etc..., but it is still bad to break lore. The jobs change the way the game is played and should have been better handled.

Not to hurt anyone's feelings or offend anyone but, I'm sorry. SE writes the lore and can literally retcon anything to fit within the confines of their own game. So the people who try and use lore as an excuse to keep with genderlocking, have to realize it's inherent flimsiness. To quote someone from reddit...

"It's always explicitly implied the WoL (WoD now?) is an adventurer and adventurers generally buck tradition and cultural norms. Most Lalafell are merchants of some kind and mostly in Ul'dah - but you can still be a greatsword wielding crazy popoto who signed up with the Adders to fight the Empire. The PC in almost every game is a cultural exception due to necessity. While a Male Miqote player can CHOOSE to RP out the N'uhn climb lifestyle, most don't and the main plot-line certainly gives you little time for it.

This implies not even a single male Viera ever decides to leave their seclusion to seek adventure or life elsewhere. And that's ridiculous."

Not to mention using the lore one minute to 'excuse' that there's no male veira and then totally disregarding it with the female hrothgar and simply excusing it by saying "It wouldn't be fair to the veira we genderlocked." Is one of the best examples of flimsy behavior.

[Lacan]

Probably because those genders existed but just weren't playable.

Male Viera and Female Ronso LITERALLY do not exist, they do not have a model, they will not be in Shadowbringer.

Male miqote had no models whatsoever in 1.0. They were still genderlocked. These terms aren't new... I don't get why they're confusing people all of a sudden.

[Paladinleeds]

It is still breaking more lore. The only thing you can argue with certain jobs is that the others are conjurers, etc..., but it is still bad to break lore. The jobs change the way the game is played and should have been better handled.

Disease has been spreading in Dalmasca due to the shift towards light in this shard. The male viera are now aware that they need to start flying the nest in order to survive.

There we go. Respects the lore that Male Viera were always traditionally reclusive and not seen, but also gives an explanation as to why they're seen more often now. Doesn't retcon the lore as such, just writes that a change has occurred forcing the male viera to adapt or die. Lore is fluid and can change over time. So long as it respects the past (which my writing does, since it writes out a situation showing that the viera had to change their ways or else). And that's just a very quick and dirty job that I came up with in about 5 minutes, I'm sure Square Enix could give a lot more detail. Retconning would be pulling the Sonic Rush/Sonic 06 stuff, which in Rush Blaze is determined to be from another dimension, then in Sonic 06 she's determined to be from the future. That's disrespecting the past and thus retconning.

[Melichoir]

People are arguing semantics about Gender Lock.

Gender Lock in the terms being commonly used refers to there only being ONE available gender of a race in an MMO. UNLESS it is otherwise stated specifically in game, races are generally assumed to have a Male and Female variant. This has been the general understanding of the term since about forever. Anyone whos trying to push the "Well they dont exist, therefore there is no gender lock" is trying to argue that if an in-game asset doesnt exist, the state of a race only having one available gender is not a gender lock. This is silly.

The issue is that this tries to redefine how "Locked" is being used. The argument is you cant lock something that doesnt exist (which is a sound argument in that context), but how 'gender lock' is actually commonly being used isnt that the assets exist and the devs just turned them off, but that we the player are locked into one choice when selecting the races that have most likely a bimodal species due to player expectation. From a Devs PoV, nothing is locked. From a players PoV, the races are locked to Male or female. Its the player perspective where the term has grounds, and is commonly used to describe this.

If you didnt know this, thats fine. Now you do. However, trying to push that we shouldnt call it "gender locking" when its common knowledge among MMO players generally is pretty much saying that because you didnt know it, we should change it to meet your standards. That gives you a lot of control of how people talk about a subject. Because the next step in a discussion would be "Well if they dont exist, that means youre not losing out on anything and the devs shouldnt focus on this, but instead focus on my interests." where the initial point is "We dont like it when you lock us players into only one gender and dont think this is good for the game." Framing changes a lot. If you dont understand the terminology, rather than telling people who do to change how they word things, you could ask people to explain it's meaning and why its used.

[Zsolen]

Not to hurt anyone's feelings or offend anyone but, I'm sorry. SE writes the lore and can literally retcon anything to fit within the confines of their own game. So the people who try and use lore as an excuse to keep with genderlocking, have to realize it's inherent flimsiness. To quote someone from reddit...

"It's always explicitly implied the WoL (WoD now?) is an adventurer and adventurers generally buck tradition and cultural norms. Most Lalafell are merchants of some kind and mostly in Ul'dah - but you can still be a greatsword wielding crazy popoto who signed up with the Adders to fight the Empire. The PC in almost every game is a cultural exception due to necessity. While a Male Miqote player can CHOOSE to RP out the N'uhn climb lifestyle, most don't and the main plot-line certainly gives you little time for it.

This implies not even a single male Viera ever decides to leave their seclusion to seek adventure or life elsewhere. And that's ridiculous."

Not to mention using the lore one minute to 'excuse' that there's no male veira and then totally disregarding it with the female hrothgar and simply excusing it by saying "It wouldn't be fair to the veira we genderlocked." Is one of the best examples of flimsy behavior.

I'm not sure what is bringing about this type of behavior, but I waited some time for people to cool off, because my first attempts to explain my concerns was met with hostility and accusations of trolling. I never said female hrothgar were lore friendly, but they are only as lore unfriendly as female viera and male hrothgar. Male viera take it to a whole other level, and no change in the forest or anything would change the lore. The lore prior to Shadowbringers is that no one sees them at any point in time. That lore would still exist to every player that has yet to reach at the very least the 5.0 MSQ.