Dead characters should stay dead (spoilers?)

[soliquidsnake]

Lousoix - It was never fully confirmed he was really dead especially finding out after that he was made a primal.

Minfillia - Like Thancred and Y'shtola, she went to the atherial stream. I don't think we were meant to believe she had died.

Gosetsu & Tsukuyomi - I agree. I like how things played out however, especially with 4.2 - 4.3.

Zenos - He has the echo. Fake or not and for all we have seen so far works exactly like ours so his status does not surprise me one bit.

Nanamo - Definitely agree.

Gaius - I DON'T CARE, I LOVE GAIUS FIGHT ME. Seriously though the explanation given by him was not sufficient. I feel as if there is more to the story that we still have yet to find out.

Papalymo - Nothing is even hinted at happening so I doubt he is alive.

WoL - Huh?

[Vexander]

I feel like I'm the only person who did not mind Nanamo's death being a red herring.

Its not out of any love of the character, but rather, the impact of what happened has not been forgotten. When the Warrior of Light is having dinner with Aymeric and Aymeric reaches for his glass of wine, you can FEEL your character tense up. Then there's the drastic change that happened in Nanamo herself as a result of this whole ordeal. She became a much better, stronger, less naive leader, and because of this, she was also able to free Raubahn to take up a leadership position in the liberated Ala Mhigo.

Nanamo's death had enough character developing repercussions (including one of the few we see our silent protagonists affected by), that I can't feel it was a bad choice.

[Rocl]

Flames of truth looked a lot like death to me.

I mean, originally, Flames of Truth was locked behind T12 clear. You couldn't see the epilogue to End of an Era without having first come face-to-face with Louisoix and defeated the primal Phoenix. For a long period of time, from 1.X through 2.4, we didn't have Flames of Truth to go by and just had the "fade to white" ending.

[silentwindfr]

I would just like to iterate that when a heroic sacrifice is returned to life any emotional depth that might have preceded it is entirely nulled and lends the cast a sense of invulnerability that is hard to shake, and it has long term consequences for the story as a whole. Case in point;

Lousoix
Minfillia
Gosetsu & Tsukuyomi
Zenos
Nanamo
Gaius
Sokoban
Papalymo (TBD)
and the Warrior of Light

Nevermind Hildibrand. One Deus-Ex-Machina or two I can abide but this is plain amateurish. You will be hard pressed in getting me to shed a tear over the next person to die when the odds show they are more likely to return than stay dead. Thanks.

- louisoix is dead, what we see is not him... it clearly explain by tiamat when she talk of bahamut.
- minfillia, when did she die? she was absorbed by hyadelin, never she was dead dude.
- gosetsu and tsukuyomi, the movie rule, if you don't see the body they aren't dead...
- zenos, the one we fight is not zenos it's elidibus and the zenos elezen can be explain by the fact that zenos did become a primordial and they are being that don't die that easily... they are spirit in a sense.
- nanamo, we wasn't sure she was killed, we do see her fall and no one have check if she was dead for sure!
- Gaius, same did you see the body?
- sokoban, who?
- papalymo is dead and that will not change
- warrior of light, we did die? when? i means outside when we wipe doing stuff *tease*

Nanamo bothers because, well, yeah, everyone has gone over it. That was absolutely not just taking some sleeping medicine, and going back on it felt cheap after the drama of 2.55. Zenos because so far he hasn't even done anything, so it makes me question why bring him back at all. And Yotsuyu because her arc is why I'm not a fan of Stormblood's MSQ, with Square spending so much time and trying so hard to make me feel sorry for a complete monster of a person.

With Louisoix and Gaius, they don't bother me because we never actually saw them die.

like said for nanamo we did see her fall, but do we have check if she was dead, plus drugs that make people look like dead is not that rare.
yotsuyu story didn't make me feel sorry for her, i understand how she did turn like this and in the same situation, i guess i will have done the same... sold to a brothel by her familly, treated like shit and only used for cash.... naturally she will hate her country and people of her country... yes she did horrible thing, but well world is not white and black.... it's full of grey and she did get a really dark grey life that for sure. i just did loved how she did get her revenge over her familly, in the end she did reach her true objective.

[Nalien]

I like to think Papalymo will return some day...

It was foreshadowed all the way back in 1.0 after all!

If nothing else, he can bring Yda back with him. I miss Yda.

The asspull they'll have to do to bring him back will be so gynormus that all interest in the story will fade.

I should clarify I'm joking, I guess. I definitely agree though, that single slide at the end of 4.0s credits was the single greatest send off to any character this game had. Can't even place why, it just felt perfect... Yda died in exposition, of all things, and I didn't really feel anything for Papalymos sacrifice, but that single screen at the end had more impact than anything else thus or since... On the flipside, I liked our two sacrificial lambs in Heavensward a lot more, and cared a lot more for their death scenes, but their send off at the end felt... Forced I guess? Perhaps that's it... You had to do the quest where you're told you cared and are sad for those two... With Yda and Papalymo it was just a brief farewell at the end of the credits and you can decide how much you care...

[Remedi]

The asspull they'll have to do to bring him back will be so gynormus that all interest in the story will fade.

[Anonymoose]

I feel like I'm the only person who did not mind Nanamo's death being a red herring.

Believe it or not, I, for one, actually agree with you. We're just converging on that point from different angles.

It's hard to explain, but I'll try.

Big picture, the intrigue behind the plot is sensible and internally consistent. The hints were there (even if they looked awkward next to a graphic depiction of fatal asphyxiation). No (major) qualms there. And I had been rooting for Nanamo since her first cutscene to grow into Ul'dah's true leader, taking back her family's power from the corrupt oligarchs who were likely responsible for their deaths. From that point of view, I'm glad for her survival. It became a turning point in that very journey.

However, that's the very reason why her death was an emotional one for me. That character arc felt inevitable; anyone could see that this was her purpose and destiny. And then she was dead. A character though to have impenetrable plot armor went down just before making a predictable decision that sent the story in the natural direction. This was arguably the entire basis of the Game of Thrones comparisons, which were made even by the dev. team itself. They knowingly milked every last drop out of "She's dead! A Realm Reborn has been about recovery and hope but, as of today, A Realm Reborn is over. Heroes don't always have it easy; heroes don't always win."

And then pulled they pulled rug out from under it. A few hand-waves and revelations later and we were right back to the inevitable rise of Sultana Nanamo Ul Namo, Seventeenth of Her Line. My problems with the Nanamo situation were solely with the presentation, pacing, bounced checks, and planting flags on territory they didn't truly claim.

[Remedi]

Not to mention that the whole setup for that arc has been long forgotten, Nanamo has done nothing to promote what she was doing back then again and the status quo pretty much remained.
They gave her a character growth scene in 4.1 which matured in 4.5 when facing the emperor, but aside from that nothing really

[Sorimachi87]

-
- warrior of light, we did die? when? i means outside when we wipe doing stuff *tease*

Only thing i can remember is during the ishgard "arc" when we got served a cup of something (probably tea) which was drugged with a sleep poison.
We were out for a long time it seemed.

Then again, doesn't really count as a death so i am kinda curious too.

[Iscah]

Not to mention that the whole setup for that arc has been long forgotten, Nanamo has done nothing to promote what she was doing back then again and the status quo pretty much remained.
They gave her a character growth scene in 4.1 which matured in 4.5 when facing the emperor, but aside from that nothing really

Unfortunately for Nanamo's character development, a lot of the aftermath was covered off-screen in the sidestory For Coin and Country and not really touched on in-game - short version, she realises dissolving the sultanate (and particularly her handling of it) was a bad idea and abandoned it.