Airship

[Shougun]

Would love to have an overworld map and transportation upon it~ Long long ago Yoshi-P mentioned one (1.0 to 2.0 era) for traveling on NPC airships/boats (like FFXI) but obviously wasn't meant to be yet.

Also really want to see ships/airships as bigger features in this game beyond just the huge nostalgia hit that's the overworld.

I've added this thread and Kalise's nautical ship focused thread (w/housing) to my own airship thread as well - hopefully we get our airships (and ships) in some future expansion .

[Hasrat]

As much as I love overworld maps, they're probably too expensive to produce in modern games. The last JRPG I remember with a traditional overworld map was Tales of Vesperia, and Final Fantasy hasn't had one since IX.

Then there's the question of how they'd restrict access to areas not yet developed... yeah, I'd like an overworld map and airship, but it's just not practical these days, in this type of game.

Personally, not quite sure it's a cost issue, but more to do with how the games/worlds are developed now. As games continue to get more "open world" and connected, there's simply less need for an overworld map feature. Previously necessary to connect independent zones, now, what need is there for map when you're already traveling the world itself?

[Shougun]

As much as I love overworld maps, they're probably too expensive to produce in modern games. The last JRPG I remember with a traditional overworld map was Tales of Vesperia, and Final Fantasy hasn't had one since IX.

Just wanted to add FFXI has one, which it also happens to be an MMORPG. Although you don't get to manually pilot across it, afaik. Also the zone system is quite similar here to there, just a lot less emphasis on travel in this game.

Given a proper speed of airships in FFXIV and lack of cost like to teleport, with some other features like Kalise thread or I's, I could see many people use them (air/ships and visit use the world map, as well as exist within maps themselves). Beyond the ship/airship content that would use it there are some other things you could do with the content if you spent time making it - like throwing it into cutscenes and boss fights (imagine fighting on the moon as you plummet into the world map like diving into a google earth-esq moment).

[Cilia]

Personally, not quite sure it's a cost issue, but more to do with how the games/worlds are developed now. As games continue to get more "open world" and connected, there's simply less need for an overworld map feature. Previously necessary to connect independent zones, now, what need is there for map when you're already traveling the world itself?

On this note, I'd like to point out that it's the other way around - games aren't as "open world" as they once were with the removal of the overworld map. They've actually become quite a bit more linear, to the point that newer Final Fantasy titles (with the exception of this one, and maybe XV which I've not and have no intention of playing) feel more like "cutscene coasters" in comparison to the older titles. (Follow the arrow, cutscene(s), follow the arrow, cutscene(s), etc., with fights sprinkled in between.)

MMOs give you more freedom, sure, but the story-heavy nature of this game means you have to follow a similar paradigm - even if you're given more freedom to do other things in the meantime, the story is still absolutely linear. JRPGs are in general, but the removal of overworld maps just emphasized that point. Whether the reason they were removed was due to cost I couldn't say, but being cynical and focused on the bottom line, that's what I'm inclined to believe.

Just wanted to add FFXI has one, which it also happens to be an MMORPG. Although you don't get to manually pilot across it, afaik. Also the zone system is quite similar here to there, just a lot less emphasis on travel in this game.

MMOs in general give you a bit more freedom in how you explore, but there's still a limit to how far you can go, as unlike a non-MMO the whole world isn't charted and developed. IX, for instance, lets you roam across the whole world as soon as you get access to the Blue Narciss - sure you can't land everywhere, but the whole map is there to chart (at least). That's simply not the case here - there's a lot of regions that exist in the world (the New World, Ilsabard, Meracydia) that could be visited with an airship, but haven't been developed.

... and sure, you could do a X-esque "airship" mode that takes you to a given Save Point (Aetheryte), but what would be the practical difference between that and just teleporting?

Again, I'd like controllable airships with an old-school overworld, but this kind of game simply can't have one until the very end of its life cycle after everywhere's been developed... and even if it makes it to that point, might not be worth the cost.

[Shougun]

MMOs in general give you a bit more freedom in how you explore, but there's still a limit to how far you can go, as unlike a non-MMO the whole world isn't charted and developed. IX, for instance, lets you roam across the whole world as soon as you get access to the Blue Narciss - sure you can't land everywhere, but the whole map is there to chart (at least). That's simply not the case here - there's a lot of regions that exist in the world (the New World, Ilsabard, Meracydia) that could be visited with an airship, but haven't been developed.

... and sure, you could do a X-esque "airship" mode that takes you to a given Save Point (Aetheryte), but what would be the practical difference between that and just teleporting?

Again, I'd like controllable airships with an old-school overworld, but this kind of game simply can't have one until the very end of its life cycle after everywhere's been developed... and even if it makes it to that point, might not be worth the cost.

I understand your concern but its not something I think that isn't solvable, like making certain areas need aether currents or pushing back Garlean warships first. The whole world map doesn't need to be opened like that, and not all places need to be landabledue to x,y,z reasons. By creating reasons you can't land, fly over, or access you effectively create the invisible walls you need. This is done all the time in games already, just a nature of all games solo or multiplayer really (cleverly blocking things).


So I get the concern but I dont worry about it because I believe SE can come up with the lore and systems necessary to make it not an issue logically and mechanically.

[Sho86]

practical difference

That's the biggest issue right there, not everything has to be practical in a game to be fun, as long as a decent sized portion of the player base would use it for one reason or another. Not everyone goes for the 'endgame' so it makes sense to explore different ideas for different people. In that vein of thinking, randomized exploration isles/coves/etc could be set up over time; designed for any sort of content, battle, gather, lore - and as the OP originally suggested, special FATE types. As for the teleport vs flight, it would be an alternative to constantly spending gil to get places (would've made a perfect inclusion with stormblood and a reason on SE's end to make teleport costs uncapped.)

Lore limitation could easily be placed for inaccessible areas even per person on their MSQ tracker, akin to a certain primal and aetheric disturbance issue. Another one that's been done before many times in the series you already pointed out, the ship at its current state can't land in certain areas (leaves room for upgrades). In game design the only limitations are your own ideas and the willingness to try them out.

The only technical issues I could see for an MMO standpoint would be load per instance of overworld and in-party differences for accessible points available. The first can be solved by either party-only instance or Eureka style, the second could just simply limit based on the lowest MSQ progression in-party at 'take-off' (Example: Dragging a newbie around would limit to ARR zones, letting the newbie enjoy a ride, but nothing more than could be done on foot or 2-man choco).

[Hasrat]

Again, I'd like controllable airships with an old-school overworld, but this kind of game simply can't have one until the very end of its life cycle after everywhere's been developed... and even if it makes it to that point, might not be worth the cost.

Which, in its own way, isn't so far off from the old ways, is it? Quite often wouldn't be given full exploration until you'd already hit up every area you could find on foot.

Mostly, tho, I just feel like world maps were simply a product of their time, and I just can't really see any games wanting to reimplement that without the same necessity. Games are getting bigger, rendering more of the world, instead of walking a generic map from point A to point B.

Plus I think there's also a matter of scale to consider for this game and similar. I've started to kinda feel like the zones we are able to explore are sorta really only meant to be a scale model of the actual areas we can explore. Doesn't really take all that much time to travel from Southern Thanalan all they way up through Dravania. World size and travel speed have always seemed a little bit fuzzy in any of these games.