Reasons for Ban

[milovan]

cursing isn’t the only form of language harassment.

[Royalpain]

That is the problem. What else is considered language that would be harmful? I don't curse or use words that considered worse than cursing. I don't want them to remove the ban I got. I just want them to tell me what I have done wrong, so others and I understand more about their new ToS

[Gula]

I seriously doubt you're giving all the information because whenever someone comes to the forums going "I got banned and I never did anything" it always turns out that they did. And since you whine about "Social Justice Warriors", it's safe to assume that's the case here.

I've literally never been banned or even got a warning for disagreeing with someone in all the years I've played, so you probably crossed a line. Maybe stop to consider what you say next time.

This post right here. I had an unfortunate run in with a player who just casually talked about Russian traps, soy and my wife's son ect. ect. No swearing, but an overall immature and offensive series of comments. FC lead removed them from the FC- and they were called soft, a SJW, ect. Didn't report him, but was it reportable for nuisance behavior? Possibly yes.

[Lacan]

That is the problem. What else is considered language that would be harmful? I don't curse or use words that considered worse than cursing. I don't want them to remove the ban I got. I just want them to tell me what I have done wrong, so others and I understand more about their new ToS

Maybe practice some introspection? :v Think back on the things you have done in the past week or so and think what you might have done/said to upset someone? Were you talking about politics? Religion? Trans people? Since you're complaining about the SJWs, I think that it was probably one of those three.

[Jaywalker]

Maybe practice some introspection? :v Think back on the things you have done in the past week or so and think what you might have done/said to upset someone? Were you talking about politics? Religion? Trans people? Since you're complaining about the SJWs, I think that it was probably one of those three.

In fairness, heard there was a situation not long ago where someone got banned because another player kept insisting Omega was trans in a raid chat. When the banned party said they didn't interpret that way, allegedly the person accused them of transphobia and reported. I've seen some people misuse the term SJW in FFXIV over really trivial nonsense, and the person Gula encountered does sound like a brat imo. But hypersensitive extremists who are ready to accuse anyone not in lockstep of bigotry are very much a thing. Tbh just playing FFXIV where there's any concept of beauty whatsoever while not condemning all fanservice would be enough to get us blanket accused of misogyny, body shaming, and objectification in some circles.

[Lucerna]

While I agree that the most likely case is that the OP used inappropriate language that wasn't curse words, I can see part of their point.

GMs are, by policy, not allowed to give details on the behavior that caused a ban. I don't fault the GMs for following policy, they need to keep their jobs and some of them probably have cats to feed. However, I believe the policy should be changed to allow for more information.

I know the concern is that the offender will know who reported them and be able to retaliate. However, some one who reported once is also likely willing to report again in the event of retaliation, which will lead to further action on the offender's account up to a permaban. And on the other hand, I've known people who suffered account action but honestly wanted to apologize to those they hurt. So I think it will be beneficial to the community at large if more information could be given to ban recipients on the reason for the account action.

[Oopsy]

Hello Jay,

While SE may not be liable for your action outside of the game it does not mean that they should ignore the possible outcome of their actions. While they may never hear or suffer any repercussions legally it can result in a large PR issue. Some actions taken may not bring up legal or other issue but still servery impact a person. Bullying in schools is a huge issue with very little legal actions taken to correct it. Some retaliation might not be direct, if you are friend with Person A and Person B, they hang out with person C, I meet person C in town and talk but we do not click at all in fact they are like oil and I am water... They touch my reverse scale and say/do something extremely offensive so I report them. This ends up being the straw that breaks the camels back resulting in them getting banned. GM kindly explains the reason to person C and though I am one of many cases they whine about it to Person B and A... Now I have no friends, A lone lalafell is not a happy lalafell. Additionally, I might not report someone if I knew they will know it was me who reported them or maybe I'll think twice about it. If say there is only one time and it was a little harsh of the other person I might forgo reporting them. If they have then do the same in many other cases to other people and none report because they don't want to be known for reporting people, then it is possible many people have a bad experience and new commers to flee from a perceived toxic environment.

As for Innocent till proven guilty, this is a weird concept that is not widely accepted. Even in the US Legal system this may be the case in the court house but until you get to trial most people will treat you as guilty. Even your own lawyer may work under the assumption of guilt. The cops that pick you up make assumptions based off their person experiences and often they respond to a call based off the assumption the callers information was correct. Call first and you get to control the situation. Who started the fight? Well obviously the mother was attacked. She call it in, why would she call in saying she was attacked if that wasn't the case. Though the incident happened after she pushed open the child's door, and placed her hands on their neck... But she has scratch marks on her arms and she did call 911. Certainly she is not lying as we can see obvious evidence of an attack. She even clearly stated the the 3rd child is a liar so why would we believe them or the 2nd child. The 2nd child attacked her after she enter the room obviously lying to not get in trouble. The cops would of course be in the right to tell you that it is wrong to hit a women for any reason, completely ignoring the fact that all you did was pry her arms off your throat and push her out of you room and sit on the door. But innocent till proven guilty right? They wouldn't hold you in a juvenile detention center for 3 month including your birthday.

The US legal system doesn't even apply to in game rules. You agree to Terms of Service. You agree that they will provide you with a service and you will obey certain rules. By violating these rules they can terminate your service. The EUA clearly states the following "SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU." in Section 1. This game has no assumption of innocence or guilt. It is not that far in, you should more carefully read the terms and agreements you make when signing up for a game most have a similar clause. It is nice to have light punishments and reasons behind the bans, it would not be a fun environment if we had tyrannical dictators running about. A clear social guidelines might be help full for some users but with out offensive examples that can be a little hard... I do think a nice note to what type of prohibited activity and a link the related terms or prohibited activity post might be helpful in some cases. Here's a link to their summary of prohibited activity http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...6&id=5382&la=1 It would be great to have mute and friend only chat option so you can only talk to certain people as a punishment for lighter infractions.

[Blokeymon]

While I agree that the most likely case is that the OP used inappropriate language that wasn't curse words, I can see part of their point.

GMs are, by policy, not allowed to give details on the behavior that caused a ban. I don't fault the GMs for following policy, they need to keep their jobs and some of them probably have cats to feed. However, I believe the policy should be changed to allow for more information.

I know the concern is that the offender will know who reported them and be able to retaliate. However, some one who reported once is also likely willing to report again in the event of retaliation, which will lead to further action on the offender's account up to a permaban. And on the other hand, I've known people who suffered account action but honestly wanted to apologize to those they hurt. So I think it will be beneficial to the community at large if more information could be given to ban recipients on the reason for the account action.

The problem you have there is that harassment isn't just limited to in-game. Some douche finds out who reported them, they can pursue them outside of the game.

Email harassment, social media, possibly face to face if they know each other IRL, and that kind of harassment is out of SE's hands.

Their policy may seem unusual, but they do it for all the right reasons.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Honestly, any sort of ban involving harassment should require multiple infractions and reports due to the interpretive nature of the violation. The fact that telling a player that they shouldn't be equipping Strength accessories on their Black Mage can be considered "nuisance behavior" and the complete lack of guidelines as to what constitutes "excessive criticism" means telling someone how to do something twice can land you a temporary ban.

[Doozer]

In fairness, heard there was a situation not long ago where someone got banned because another player kept insisting Omega was trans in a raid chat. When the banned party said they didn't interpret that way, allegedly the person accused them of transphobia and reported. I've seen some people misuse the term SJW in FFXIV over really trivial nonsense, and the person Gula encountered does sound like a brat imo. But hypersensitive extremists who are ready to accuse anyone not in lockstep of bigotry are very much a thing. Tbh just playing FFXIV where there's any concept of beauty whatsoever while not condemning all fanservice would be enough to get us blanket accused of misogyny, body shaming, and objectification in some circles.

I want to assure you, as someone who runs in 'SJW' circles, people who go around screeching about the most minor things being bigotry are a vocal minority. While there's certainly issues of misogyny and whatnot in video games (especially fantasy-themed ones), we don't spend our entire time complaining about it and yelling at people in-game who disagree. The 'SJWs' people oft complain about are a strawman that is extremely rare and/or just someone who hates SJWs and pretends to be a caricature of one to stir up hatred towards them.

But like others have said, OP, cursing isn't the only form of offensive language there is. I can't really go into examples, but they usually relate to -- for lack of a better term -- protected groups, so you need to be aware of what you're saying based on things like race, gender, sexuality, etc. because while you may think it's funny it could be extremely offensive, and not in the "wah I'm offended #triggered" way that people like to make it seem, but it can actually be extremely upsetting; usually because people encounter harassment or language of that kind irl, and really don't need to endure even more of it in a game that's supposed to be fun.