Gender Locks Have Revealed the Worst in Players.

[iDovahBear]

This isn't WoW where you make a brand new character from scratch when you get a new class.

A new class adds lore, adds quests, story, different gameplay options, new party compositions, new characters and adds a brand new market for crafters to create items for.

A new race/gender adds...uhm...it fills the world's races out I guess?

A new class, whether you like it or not, whether you are playing it or not affects you in many ways whether you notice them or not.

Someone playing as a male or female viera adds absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Doesn't affect your raid composition, whether you craft items for that race, story, etc.

If your interests lie solely in the races available in this game, you weren't going to last long anyway since this game, although doesn't have the same weight as WoW, contains a huge amount of content to go through and for some reason the races/genders available is what happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back for some people. Now that is petty.

Again you're projecting what other people should care about.

I don't know why you keep going down that path. It's the wrong thing to do, regardless of intent.

It's the straw that broke the camel's back for SOME people who enjoy supporting Square Enix primarily through the MogStation and Fantasia, etc.

You can argue that the addition of a new race(s) provides the least to core gameplay or mechanics, but you'd be wrong that it doesn't add something new.

Clearly you've glossed over an entire segment of the Community in the form of roleplayers and their respective roleplay servers.

These are entire servers dedicated to fostering not just the core gameplay, but another depth of immersion, etc.

It also opens a window for even more character diversity as well as opening new avenues for roleplay sequences.

Such servers are filled to the brim with people who find themselves willing to dispense their disposable income to Square Enix for aesthetic changes.

That you're willing to overlook such a sizable portion of the community just to project your own self-centered agenda speaks volumes to your hubris.

[stormygabe]

...

First, at this point, there are more posts complaining about people dragging real-world issues into the game that I've seen than people actually doing that thing. Second, you cannot separate media from the real world, as the real world informs its creators and thus, its creation. That then informs the experiences and perceptions of those who consume it. If we didn't bring up how politics or other real-world issues affect our media, we'd probably still be seeing things like Coal Black or the like. That being said, this is nothing near that, and I do agree that those few people accusing the devs of being homophobic or sexist are either disingenuous, hyperbolic, or misinformed. However, those attacking people asking for other genders and accusing them of being childish, or snowflakes, or what have you, are just as bad and just as unhelpful.

I haven't followed this trend until I got into the game recently, but from what I understand, people have been asking for Viera and a beast race for a hot minute. Concept art, a poll, and the subsequent reveal of Fran probably just fanned those flames. I can't speak for others, but for me, when it comes to MMOs, I honestly don't care about classes as long as there's at least one I enjoy (and not genderlocked), with combat that's challenging enough. Because of this, I don't have much of anything to say about that. Plus their explanation was more than understandable to me. If I was a healer main, I'd probably be a bit more passionate about the subject though. People do enjoy RPing, which isn't wrong, and glamour is a huge part of end game. I mean, this MMO is the only one I've played that literally has a feature dedicated to taking better screenshots. So I don't think looking at one's character goes against the dev's idea of the game.

I keep seeing comments complaining about all the accusations against the devs, when those comments seem to be in the minority. I also keep seeing comments about how race and cosmetics aren't important, despite being part of a game in which one common phrase is "Glamour is end game." Finally, you mention people not knowing what the words "homophobic" or "sexist" mean. I don't know you, so I won't presume to tell you that you don't either. However, there IS a discussion to be had about how men and women are portrayed in media and how that can affect the wider society. While the devs' intentions were good, from what I read, I think that discussion still has a place in this instance. I just wish it could happen in a more productive way.

[LalafellDown]

There’s too many human/animal hybrids. Where is the lala/animal race hybrid? Perhaps we could get a lala Hrothgar?

[Alucard135]

There’s too many human/animal hybrids. Where is the lala/animal race hybrid? Perhaps we could get a lala Hrothgar?

You mean this?

[MrKimper]

You mean this?

God a moomba race would be nigh unstoppable.

[Rufalus]

This thread is massive so I'm only going to respond to the original post.
Something people should understand is that there are unlimited possibilities in a creative medium like this but only limited resources so they have to make choices all the time on what to create and what to leave out.

It should be noted that there weren't male viera in FF XII either so the XIV team only had the female model to reference. Rather than create the male of this species they thought it would be more interesting to increase diversity by adding an entirely different race. Remember it's not an option to just do both because resources can't be made infinite.

Because male viera wasn't made, they had time to implement male hrothgar this expansion. This decision is not sexist or homophobic. A gender wasn't 'locked', it just never existed because they spent their time making something else that's more distinctly different than character options we already have.

[reivaxe]

Wouldn't you say that backfired on them though? Now they've got two different races people are asking for instead of just one.

No, it's not a backfire. They expected blow back like this and we must remember that these forums only rep a small vocal minority. Heck, on the non-English forums this isn't nearly as big of a deal. The biggest JPN thread I've seen between the 2 topics over there is like 13 pages long and far far from the toxicity being pumped out over here. People over there are taking it like ... normal people. Understanding the limits and hoping they change their mind but not throwing a rager over it.

Also, I think it's important to put things into context. IMO it's clear that most of this vocal minority have zero plans for playing these genders. With Male Viera it's prob people thirsty for ERP. I mean ... it's the most logical train of thought. It's where the Sexism/ Homophobic non-sense stems from. "They gave STRAIGHT MEN a new sexy/ pretty girl to ogoogle at, what about my eye candy/ kink!?!" (Completely disregarding that by large the only female toons players in this game seem to have interest in are the attractive/ cute races ... leaving Elezen girls and FemRoe in the pits).
Also explains why some people get massive threads wanting Viera males to basically be child sized and how people keep pushing for what male body type they find attractive. I've seen people straight up want them to look like Elin (Tera) or Lin(? B&S).

For HROTHGAR it seems more like people wanting to not look bad for wanting Male Viera then to actually play as them. Like a case of "that would be nice to see, but not for me ..." thing. Much like how apparently tons of people supported FemRoe when they were locked out but look at us now! So rare that apparently some servers don't even have 10 femroe. I can't even bring myself to read the thread for them ... cause I know if someone's not willing to play a FemRoe instead of their lil Waifu race they sure as hell arnt interested in playing a FemRoe with an animal head..


EDIT
I want to remind people that the female Hrothgar were the ones cut in favor of Viera, not the other way around.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

redcurrant18's posts

[VirusOnline]

Also, I think it's important to put things into context. IMO it's clear that most of this vocal minority have zero plans for playing these genders. With Male Viera it's prob people thirsty for ERP. I mean ... it's the most logical train of thought. It's where the Sexism/ Homophobic non-sense stems from. "They gave STRAIGHT MEN a new sexy/ pretty girl to ogoogle at, what about my eye candy/ kink!?!" (Completely disregarding that by large the only female toons players in this game seem to have interest in are the attractive/ cute races ... leaving Elezen girls and FemRoe in the pits).
Also explains why some people get massive threads wanting Viera males to basically be child sized and how people keep pushing for what male body type they find attractive. I've seen people straight up want them to look like Elin (Tera) or Lin(? B&S).

ERP is not some widespread thing that everyone does in game nor does everyone desire to do this - this perception is out of hand and is a baseless rebuttal that is used to merely make people look bad. In my time of playing FFXIV for 2-3 years I have not even seen ERP anywhere and I've traveled across many worlds. People simply want these missing genders in game because that is the gender they like to play in game. Not everyone wants to be a bunny girl. Saying that everyone wants mViera on the sole basis to ERP ? Sorry, I have no interest in that, I simply want to be a male viera and go into raids and dungeons as such.

Most people advocating for mViera/Fhrothgar would most certainly play them. If this issue was turned on its head and in the place of viera was miqo'te I can certainly say I'd be hearing people today say these same things and as we can see it is certainly not the case. For example catboys: There are so many catboys on Faerie I suspect the majority of the game's catboy population exists on Faerie. And yet it's a normal occurence to see them and people go along in their day. I never once looked at them and automatically thought : oh they just erp. No they just want to be a catboy simple.

The arguments of sexism/homophobia steam from people feeling it is a personal attack to have not included the other genders which has already been debunked.
It's not that crazy for people to want to have a good looking male. There is such abundance of pretty/sexy females avatar in game as you said but we don't instantly jump to the conclusion that they exist for ERP. No, we say oh it's so pretty why wouldn't we want to play it ? Yet it's crazy for people to want males to be in that same way ?

It is this type of post that does indeed reveal the worst[assumptions] in players because they automatically assume these sort of things when in reality it's much much simpler - choice simply is another form of enjoying the game.

[Halivel]

Heck, on the non-English forums this isn't nearly as big of a deal. The biggest JPN thread I've seen between the 2 topics over there is like 13 pages long and far far from the toxicity being pumped out over here.

About this I already wrote in another thread. Will just quote it, okay?

There is a thing about regions which I want to bring up, because people seem to not know, not understand or just completely ignore it as if it's profitable for them for any reason.

First of all, EN Forum is not American playerbase. It is English speaking playerbase which is a completely different thing. I am personally not American, not English, not German and not French. I'm not even European and not native in language which I use right now. Same as thousands other players here on EN forum, because they learned English in school/university and use this exact language for communicating in game and on forums. And I don't even speak about those who don't speak any of game's languages at all and just play and write with google translate.

Next is the fact that EN forum is biggest with big detachment, so calling it a minority is just not true. Time for math? What we have after these 5.5 years.

EN Forum: 142 151 threads, 2 313 486 comments
JP Forum: 33 115 threads, 494 884 comments
DE Forum: 11 494 threads, 134 765 comments
FR Forum: 12 497 threads, 124 101 comments

JP forum is 5 time smaller than EN. And I see this forum, and considering its overall activity the thread for Viera and Hrothgar request on JP forum is big enough. Not to mention that Japanese write on Twitter as well. Also, Japanese are more calm and polite so there is just no any fights and stupid positions like "they have to listen me, not you, I know better". Japanese players ask for female Hrothgars and male Vieras same as English speaking community, just calmer and more polite.

DE and FR forums are nearly dead compare to EN and JP, they barely write about anything. And I somehow think that people from there who were interested in this situation wrote about it on this, English, Forum with using English language.