People seem to forget we've been here before

[Wynn_Storm]

That seems to be an innate issue with some individuals. Not enough people nowadays take a day or two before they decide to express their concerns, which isn't entirely a bad thing if they're capable of doing it in a respectable manner in the first place. As for the people who came rushing in with some sort of vendetta against the developers, those are the people who really need to think before they speak. Hell, I'm supposed to be on the same side as some of these people but I find it distasteful to associate myself with people who are throwing around the "sexist" or "homophobic" tags like they're candy. More people need to understand we can't get what we want whenever we want it. Stay civil, express your support for adding them in a civil manner, and move on and hope for the best. That's what I've done, and its saved me a lot of stress.

See the funny thing is, i have made a lot of post against male viera/female ronso. But i wouldn't be opposed to them being added. And more than likely they will be added in the future. But the idea of waiting is unappealing to a lot of people since they want it right now. And i can understand frustration for wanting something, but the thing is that these people fail to understand what it takes to add a new race. Then i know the counter argument is well if its so hard they should have just worked on one instead of two. Well that is not what they wanted, and so this is what we are left with. There is no point crying over it. It is what it is. Now you can give fair criticism and give your reasoning for wanting them in a fair and civil manner, and i'm sure they will listen.

But like i said, its a lot of knee jerk reactions at the start. Throwing out buzz words like sexist or homophobic is just the complete wrong way to go about this. Most of the people complaining are adults, act like it.

[Ilan]

[Tsukino]

Very few people want you to not have the race/sex combinations you wanted added. Those of us who are apathetic, however, do not enjoy it taking over the forums and everything else, as others have already stated.

Furthermore, you all present this "problem" in a manner that is framed very ignorantly. There seems to be a general lack of understanding for how much work it is for the development team to add a whole new race and test hundreds of pieces of equipment, create new animations not just for all the emotes but for almost 30 jobs, record several new voice choices, etc. Instead you say you're "locked" out of something, or that if they would just listen to what you want then they could make it happen. They know you want it; wanting it doesn't pay or make time for it to actually be created.

[milovan]

because the main reason for people whining in NA over male bunnies is taboo on the other parts of the world.

[Halivel]

Another note, i really do think the west's opinion is the minority.

I decided to click around and went to the other forum sections for the other countries. And boy is it the complete opposite. Nobody is angry, nobody is barely discussing it, and if it is brought up they are friendly. Using google chrome to translate the page, i could get a very rough understanding of what they were saying, and i didn't see any hostility at all. It really makes you wonder why it is such a big deal here, but nowhere else in the world. Granted i didn't go out searching everywhere, but from the quick glances i saw there was no drama.

Let's face it, americans whine the loudest.

There is a thing about regions which I want to bring up, because people seem to not know, not understand or just completely ignore it as if it's profitable for them for any reason.

First of all, EN Forum is not American playerbase. It is English speaking playerbase which is a completely different thing. I am personally not American, not English, not German and not French. I'm not even European and not native in language which I use right now. Same as thousands other players here on EN forum, because they learned English in school/university and use this exact language for communicating in game and on forums. And I don't even speak about those who don't speak any of game's languages at all and just play and write with google translate.

Next is the fact that EN forum is biggest with big detachment, so calling it a minority is just not true. Time for math? What we have after these 5.5 years.

EN Forum: 142 151 threads, 2 313 486 comments
JP Forum: 33 115 threads, 494 884 comments
DE Forum: 11 494 threads, 134 765 comments
FR Forum: 12 497 threads, 124 101 comments

JP forum is 5 time smaller than EN. And I see this forum, and considering its overall activity the thread for Viera and Hrothgar request on JP forum is big enough. Not to mention that Japanese write on Twitter as well. Also, Japanese are more calm and polite so there is just no any fights and stupid positions like "they have to listen me, not you, I know better". Japanese players ask for female Hrothgars and male Vieras same as English speaking community, just calmer and more polite.

DE and FR forums are nearly dead compare to EN and JP, they barely write about anything. And I somehow think that people from there who were interested in this situation wrote about it on this, English, Forum with using English language.

Not to mention this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-XIV-forums%21

Please note that while moderation and support will be made across all languages, active participation from the Development and Operation teams will be limited to English and Japanese for the time being.

And devteam consider EN and JP feedback not because DE and FR are less valuable. They consider them because Japanese is a home market language, and English is just biggest since it's the main world language for communicating and it's most common in playerbase.

[Emmanellain]

What Theodric said, if it was confined to a single thread it would be much better. They wouldn't have to go searching through so many different threads because each person thinks their opinion is unique and deserves its own thread.


Another note, i really do think the west's opinion is the minority.

I decided to click around and went to the other forum sections for the other countries. And boy is it the complete opposite. Nobody is angry, nobody is barely discussing it, and if it is brought up they are friendly. Using google chrome to translate the page, i could get a very rough understanding of what they were saying, and i didn't see any hostility at all. It really makes you wonder why it is such a big deal here, but nowhere else in the world. Granted i didn't go out searching everywhere, but from the quick glances i saw there was no drama.

Let's face it, americans whine the loudest.

Americans are also the biggest playerbase? I'm from Europe and I can confirm the EU players want Male Viera and Female Hrothgar as well.

[Selova]

snip.

No one is saying giving the developers feedback won't change anything. However. The absolute embarrassing way people are going about giving feedback is not the route you go if you want them to listen. If you want the developers to take the feedback you're giving seriously, then it needs to be given in a calm and constructive manner and not in the way that certain members of this community have been doing lately. Also, we really don't need more threads about this. There's already a gigantic thread about the support of male viera that's been there for a long time, posting your feedback in that thread is your best bet on them ever deciding to implement male viera.

[Floortank]

Ask for what you want in this game, as many times as you want, in as many places as you want, as long as you are civil about it. Be loud. The developers need to know that half-completed features are unacceptable. They've slipped to a much lower standard than in previous expansions. The new races are rushed and incomplete on a scale that hearkens back to the mistakes of 2009.

I'm shocked that so many people in the community are watching this happen without comment. History is repeating itself, but instead of giving the developers a piece of your minds, you rush to tell community members to be quiet. What the holy heck is wrong with you all?

[Emmanellain]

Do you see and acknowledge that when these avatars were added, there was far less content in the game than we have currently? Available resources do not grow as the game does. In fact, the available resources often decrease due to taking on other projects, vacations, sick leave, maternity leave, among other factors.

Of course it is ok to want male Viera and female Hrothgar, and it is perfectly acceptable to voice those desires and being supportive of it here. However, chastising the devs, threats of unsubbing, or otherwise failing to even understand the time and work the devs put into the game is where and when the whining and sense of entitlement comes out. It shows a large degree of being unappreciative and thinking the stars revolve around you. It is easily discernable between the two mindsets.

I've been active on the forums daily and reading the threads since the fanfest and I've seen less nasty comments to the devs than I can count on one hand, the claims of sexism are ridiculous of course, but I honestly see more people complaining about these people than actual nasty complaints.

If people decide to unsub due to this PR nightmare, then alright that's on them, that literally hurts nobody - let them tell SE why at least on the Forum before they leave.

I've not seen anyone chastising the devs, and if something like that has honestly transpired then its the work of like, what? 2-10 people? that's hardly an amount worthy of note.
SE is a huge company, this is a classic case of a marketing mishap, and such things happen. What we CAN do now, is to send a vocal, clear message that we don't wish gender locks in this MMO - the final decision sits with them.
The Viera threads have become feedback threads, with a respectable tone and fanwork exchanges, so I honestly don't get why so many want to color the NA view "oh they're nasty and whiny over cosmetics" No, most are constructive, and one stroll through the threads are exactly in tune with the feedback Yoshi wants to hear.

The reactions are always like a knee-jerk the first few days as people process the changes, now after a week it has watered down to a healthy discussion, so instead of fixating on old beef we could move forward and hopefully one day we can enjoy having a full set of races come 6.0+, if Yoshi P is willing and able to implement them..

[Reinha]

these people fail to understand what it takes to add a new race. Then i know the counter argument is well if its so hard they should have just worked on one instead of two.

And this here is why I agree with the decision to implement two genderlocked races. They had the resources for two new character models. Many of us wanted a beast race, but I also think the Viera was too much in demand to be left out. Viera fans or beast race fans shouldn't be left with nothing just to please the gender warriors, many of which weren't even going to play new races and therefore are not affected.

Implementing f+m Viera is just more of what we already have and although popular would not have added variety and drawn in players with different tastes. Implementing f+m Hrothgar would have added more variety but less fantasia sales and let's be honest here, the criticism we see right now pales in comparison to what we would have seen from the Viera fans if we didn't get the females either.

Giving us two races was the right choice. And now we can ask for the missing variants to be made at some point. Had we only gotten one race the chances of getting the other would have been very low.