Healer identity in 5.0

[CelestaRosa]

It was said in the Naoki's corner #1, https://www.twitch.tv/videos/399663821 Time stamp ~4:59:00

They talk about job changes and they talk about Paladin and oath stance may be getting some changes, then the woman mentions WHM, they joke about Yoshida sitting between two white mage players and he Hmms and Haaas a bit after saying he's a black mage and then he says 更に使いやすくなるんじゃないかな I guess they'll become even easier to play/use. だっと思います (or so I think/At least I think so). The girl is actually happy with this response. 白は最近ね石しか投げないよね　He then jokes about how all WHMs can do now is throw rocks -_-;



He is definitely not joking around when he says the part about making the white mage easier to use. But, yes, he's really not revealing anything by saying that. But the tone of his voice is serious, so it is a serious answer. It's not a sure answer maybe he's not fully sure of the details himself, as he does say "or so I think" afterwards. But this is basically an ask me anything discussion about jobs, so he is being serious before the jokes about the rock throwing.

Sorry about the edits. I've been playing it back and forth a few times to make sure I'm hearing what he's saying correctly and trying to get more of the context but that's all there really is.



It could mean just about anything and it really depends on who is the one "using" the whm? Is it going to be easier to use it in a raid? Easier for the player to control? We assume the latter and I'm sure that's the answer that's implied, but what that involves, it's anyone's guess really. It could be wonderful, it could be a hot pile of garbage it could just be... "meh." We won't know till May and that's a long time to let anxiety build up again to explosive levels should the news not be good.

anyone here wanna throw rocks at yoshi-p and scream "BOOOOOOOO!!"

[Mortex]

Just a healer main waiting for the total job healer chaos. If you did stick around with ff 14 for some time you know that it will be a dumpster fire, rebalance whenever I hear this from the job team I already now what is going to happen. I’m more curious how many people still wanna heal in the next expansion because to balance healer you either buff the shit out of whm and noc Astro or nerf sch massively and Astro diu to get it on pair with the last place whm.

[Mortex]

anyone here wanna throw rocks at yoshi-p and scream "BOOOOOOOO!!"

Nothing new that they hate whm and want it to be the new player friendly healer. But they don’t get that it is quite the opposite, the moment you look for high end content you see how bad the job is, like by god I did use whm for everything this expansion and it sucked getting 24/7 Aggro on neo or kefka and getting my ass beat, not having dmg reduce like astro or good dmg because you need to heal lazy raid mechanics like white hole or heartless archangel. Like when you have no cards and Astro out dps you in fights that’s just sad and he buffs the group dps.

[Levy9]

Ironically, I think the PvP healers make a bit more sense from a design/identity perspective, despite the limited moveset/similar core.

For example, PvP AST is the fast and mobile buffing healer, with instant cast times on their single target GCDs. They essentially have something similar to Red Mage's dual cast trait, letting them instant cast a GCD after a hard casted Benefic. Their speed technically makes them the strongest throughput healer. PvP AST doesn't have any shields or any regen, save for drawing lady of crowns through it's job mechanic. Their card buffs, speed/mobility and throughput healing is what they are given in place of shields or on-demand regens. They do still have Disable/Bole for occasional mitigation though. Not having shields actually makes drawing Bole a bit more desirable as well. (Pray for Bole on limit break)?

Given that AST has abilities that involve time manipulation and speed alteration, I think it makes sense thematically as well.

The lower recast time on Lightspeed and the instant cast trait of PvP AST makes it so the developers can comfortably omit certain healing tools on AST's kit to create a more varied feel. AST doesn't require the same regen/shield mechanics that a WHM/SCH has when it can heal so rapidly. I feel as if PvP AST finds a third way when it comes to keeping the party survival potential that each class brings relatively balanced.

PvP WHM is more of an omni-healer rather than a pure healer. They still don't have utility, but when it comes to survival, they can do it all (shields and regen). They're given several very strong oGCDs that they need to keep people alive. The lily mechanic also makes way more sense in PvP. You need those oGCDs ready as much as possible due to having slower GCD heals. 3 Lilies gives a full 50% cooldown reduction. It's a really strong effect compared to the 20% reduction you get in PvE. Some situations leave no choice, but due to the healing intensive nature of PvP, you definitely don't want to pop WHM oGCDs before 3 lilies if you don't have to.

Of course, fighting other players is very different. You're healing way more often in PvP, so things like personal DPS and utility are a bit less important. It's not clear how well they would translate, but the best bet may be a long-form version of the PvP healers for WHM/AST.

[number473]

Ironically, I think the PvP healers make a bit more sense from a design/identity perspective, despite the limited moveset/similar core.

I'm not very experienced with PvP but I agree that the design of the healers, especially lilies, make a lot more sense in PvP. The big difference there is that your main focus is on healing and you do need to cast your main gcd heal quite a lot. So the skills make sense in this context. They don't make sense in the PvE context where the focus is on filling every gcd and mp is not really a large concern.

[Nujana]

I postet this in a different thread, but I think it fits here better, so please forgive me for copying my own post

I really hope they do not repeat the same mistakes they did with SB...
Just flat out nerfing SCH all over without fundamentally changing how WHM and AST overlap is not going to make WHM any better. It's only making SCH less fun!

What I hope for is for them finally giving every healer its own identity and niche!
WHM:
- Keep it being the reactive healer with the big numbers
- Give it some kind of grp-utility!
- Overwork lilys and PI to be actually useful.
- Give it back some of its identity (f.e. make "Protect" a WHM-only CD ability with some serious dmg-reduction, it's click and forget anyway right now!)

SCH:
- Keep it being the preemptive shield healer, with more pet ability interaction
- Make both fairys useful, maybe make Selene buff SCH-shields (only a little!) or take away Chain-Strat and give Selene some actual grp-utility
- Critlo has to go! I do love my crit shields, but they are honestly too OP.
- Indom has to be either a higher CD or a cast timer slapped on
- Rework the fairy gauge to have more than one use... Maybe get rid of AF and use the gauge instead.
- Dissipation has to be changed - I can count one one hand the times i have used it during HW and SB...

AST:
- Focus on the card identity!
- Make Sects influence cards, not healing.
- Make AST the oGCD/highly mobile heal without hots or shields, lightspeed already fits that fantasy. Of course the healing potencies have to be reduced so it's not on par with WHM in that department.

[Hysterior]

WHM: More elemental spells and more holy-magic. Give them some party buff.
SCH: More fairy skills VS SCH skills but revamp how they are being used and how she reacts. Revamp Selene.
AST: More card related spells (not necessarily buffs but also heals and DPS) but lower draw recast so you spend more time on cards.

Al healers should be able to regen AND shield but they could have separate party buffs that are complementary. DPS output should be similar on all jobs.

[Reiryuu]

Al healers should be able to regen AND shield but they could have separate party buffs that are complementary. DPS output should be similar on all jobs.

I actually don't agree with you on that, but I suppose it depends on what you mean by "shield" exactly. If you mean flat out adlo-type spell, then I disagree. If you mean "method of mitigating damage" then I would agree.
I think that all the healers should have different ways in which they primarily heal damage or prevent damage. They all also need some sort of "OH %#!#@" button for emergencies. I want to emphasize here that I don't necessarily think AST *should* have to only heal with HoTs. I just feel that's the best method due to their duration/time theme.

Primary tool wise, I think WHM and SCH are more or less fine. WHM's primary means of healing are direct heals with cast time, SCH has shields that heal a bit on application, and have the fairy which could provide some sort of small "topping off" healing while shields are up, or perhaps some way of replenishing the shield itself to differentiate the two a bit from each other. The ability for SCH for "OH !$#!" can be one of the spells they already have which consumes the shield and heals the health it would have shielded. Perhaps they can keep this ability and have a single target version on a lengthier cooldown that gave a boosted amount of the sheild's remaining "HP".

As for AST you can do something similar. Playing RIFT, I remember the Warden Cleric Soul having this ability called "Orbs of the Stream" that was really kind of cool. It created three balls of water and they orbited the target player and burst whenever that player took damage giving some healing. Perhaps Diurnal Sect can make their heals HoTs while Noctournal makes them these "Orbs" instead. The orbs would have a long duration, burst heal on demand (take damage) while the HoTs would heal the same amount that the heal would originally over 15 seconds (though + a bonus as the heal would technically take longer, to keep the healing per second in line with other healers.) Their "OH !#$@ button" could consume the HoT/Orbs and heal all of that potential damage at once, similar to the scholar's.

For damage mitigation, maybe WHM can have an ability like Phalanx or something which reduced all incoming damage by X% until it had absorbed a certain Y amount of damage. Maybe ASTs could have some sort of Stasis effect where the damage is delayed for a certain amount of time and when that time is up, gets placed on the target as a DoT over the same amount of time or something. I'm just kinda throwing out ideas that are swimming around.

Edit: I'm only really talking about primary sources of healing here, except when I mentioned Scholar and the faries. I should note, that I am all for each healer to have a primary *and* secondary means of healing, much like the WHM has Cures and Regen. Regen and the AST HoTs can stack because they are not the same duration or the same amount of healing, thus the effects are not equivalent. AST would have time delay heals as a secondary much like Earthly Star operates, in my mind.

[Bobsmiaw]

Ironically, I think the PvP healers make a bit more sense from a design/identity perspective, despite the limited moveset/similar core.

For example, PvP AST is the fast and mobile buffing healer, with instant cast times on their single target GCDs. They essentially have something similar to Red Mage's dual cast trait, letting them instant cast a GCD after a hard casted Benefic. Their speed technically makes them the strongest throughput healer. PvP AST doesn't have any shields or any regen, save for drawing lady of crowns through it's job mechanic. Their card buffs, speed/mobility and throughput healing is what they are given in place of shields or on-demand regens. They do still have Disable/Bole for occasional mitigation though. Not having shields actually makes drawing Bole a bit more desirable as well. (Pray for Bole on limit break)?

Given that AST has abilities that involve time manipulation and speed alteration, I think it makes sense thematically as well.

The lower recast time on Lightspeed and the instant cast trait of PvP AST makes it so the developers can comfortably omit certain healing tools on AST's kit to create a more varied feel. AST doesn't require the same regen/shield mechanics that a WHM/SCH has when it can heal so rapidly. I feel as if PvP AST finds a third way when it comes to keeping the party survival potential that each class brings relatively balanced.

100% agree with this, faster cast speed also works perfectly with our tons of cards oGCD.
Maybe also reduce the cast time for all healing spell? like Benefic = 1.5 sec, Benefic 2 = 1.5 sec, and Helios = 2 sec?
However, keep all AST healing spell potency lower by at least 10-20% than WHM.

Some addition: the abridged (instant cast) from Benefic cannot be used to instant cast Ascend to prevent it become OP.
Abridged only work to instant cast Benefic, Benefic 2, and Helios. Not working with MAlefic and Gravity.
Abridged + Benefic = got Abridged again ( same as PVP, you can instant spam Benefic overtime)
Abridged + Benefic 2 = no additional Abridge
Abridged + Helios = no additional Abridge
Maybe also add mp cost reduction when under the effect of Abridged (like 25% mp cost reduction)? since we depend on fast/spamming healing especially in a dungeon?

The main problem from AST will be the Aspected Benefic since we use it on our job quest to heal and provide a barrier.
So, SE cannot delete this spell. They have to give a different effect and healing mechanism for this spell.
On the other hand, I think Aspected Helios can be deleted.

For burst healing, we have Earthly Stars.
For mitigation + regen, we have Collective Unconcious.
So we do not need an additional HoT/Shield from the Aspected spell.

[Bobsmiaw]

AST:
- Focus on the card identity!
- Make Sects influence cards, not healing.
- Make AST the oGCD/highly mobile heal without hots or shields, lightspeed already fits that fantasy. Of course the healing potencies have to be reduced so it's not on par with WHM in that department.

I have some ideas about this

Diurnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw offensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Balance, Spear, or Arrow.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lord of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

Nocturnal Sect:
Grant you the ability to draw defensive arcana to aid your allies.
Under this sect you can only Draw and Redraw Bole, Ewer, or Spire.
Using Minor Arcana will always grant you Lady of Crowns.
Cooldowns: 10 sec? or maybe longer?
Also possible to Sect swap during battle.

With this Sect effect on card, we can minimize the RNG of our cards.
Sleeve Draw will not affected by Sect. You can get all type of cards.
If you want to Redraw after Sleeve Draw, the Redraw is still affected by the Sect.

Also, I prefer to have a similar effect like in PVP for Lady and Lord.
Lady will give small heal + HoT, while Lord will give small damage + DoT.
HoT potency should not be high to prevent it become OP.
Maybe 100 front heal + 100 HoT for 12 sec? So, 500 potency in total which is the same with current Lady potency.

So let's talk about the new card aka Spire.
Since TP will be gone we need a new effect for this card.
Maybe 10% increase in healing magic like Fey Illumination? Or 10% healing magic recieve like Convalescence?
I want AST to have a balance between offensive and defensive Arcana