Information on why the devs didn't include Viera Male/Hrothgar Female

[ScarboroughFairy]

Do you think sexism and homophobia only exist in the world when people blurt out "I am sexist!" or "I am homophobic!" immediately prior to whatever damaging action they are about to undertake?

Wait, let me guess. When the devs took years to remove the genderlock on the bunny suit and said it was because all the men were uncomfortable with working on it, they meant they were uncomfortable with the, um, constraints on resources imposed by SE management.

And when Yoshida said male viera would be "weird" he meant it would take a weirdly large amount of resources to create them.

You can, as a man, find the idea of men wearing lingerie weird if it's something you're not used to seeing or prefer to see. That doesn't necessarily equate to homophobia. A man and a woman making out in front of me is something I find weird, but I'm not heterophobic, am I? Don't conflate "weird" with "wrong", those two can be mutually exclusive.

And when a race locked to female characters caters to straight male fantasies about women, while a race locked to male characters caters to the qualities straight men want to embody, it's all down to an efficient allocation of resources, even though this division is already catered to by existing content (Au Ra).

And, as I've stated in several other threads, there's nothing wrong with a woman dressing in a way considered "sexy" (depending on your tastes). We have several archetypes that span over several races that get representation like the burly and rugged Roe women and the cutesy Lala men. There's nothing wrong with the design of female Viera appealing to what is commonly considered feminine traits just as there is nothing wrong with the male Hrothgar appealing to the typical standard of what's generally agreed upon in some cultures as masculinity. Not all masculinity is toxic and slutshaming is frowned upon nowadays, y'know?

Also, do remember that the same thing that straight men find alluring, some lesbians likely find alluring as well. It's not just straight men that they're catering to. There's a larger degree of inclusiveness in the design than you realize.

Here's what I have to say for myself: you don't get to say what I perceive as sexist or homophobic. You and the rest of the crowd here and on Reddit who have been engaging in ugly attacks on those who have dared to express their dissatisfaction have no empathy or desire to understand what you're attacking. I can't think of anything more "simp" than that.

Sure, I don't get to say what you perceive as sexist or homophobic. That won't stop you from being any less misinformed in regards to your opinion, especially when the decision of the races likely has less to do with everything you accuse the devs of and more to do with how they develop games. To say otherwise is to engage in the perspective from what I just implied: a simpleton. You don't get to say what I perceive as simpleton behavior.

[wereotter]

Honestly, this is much better than 'lore says nah'' - it means most likely the counterparts will be released in the future. Hopefully. I'm not going to jump the gun and get my hopes up, however.

The lore always seemed a weak excuse anyway considering so many other things both in the game already. Duskwights and male Miquotes have been brought up several times in many other threads.... and there's the simple reasoning they could use that "Everything you learned in the 24-man raid is how it works on The Source, buuuuut on The First, females and males have swapped roles, so males are the ones you see and the females are the ones who will kill you on sight"

Ultimately my understanding (and correct me if I'm not reading this correctly) Hrothgar was originally planned to be the only race this expansion. They likely already have reasons they need to exist in the story and did work on developing them before the Ivalice raid series was confirmed, and rather than throw away the work already started on Hrothgar, they decided to make them male only and then make female Viera. This seems a logical move if that was the series of events, though short sighted. It's easier to see how they might have not calculated how much of a backlash female-only Viera would cause.

Hopefully they see the response, and decide to add counterparts later. Yes it's mostly people wanting the male Viera, but commenters have already expressed their disappointment with not being able to play a more beastial lady. After this expansion your choices as a female character for something beastial is Miquote, Au Ra, and Viera and all are much more cute/sexy as opposed to fierce.

[wereotter]

Really if they had been open from the start all of this could have been avoided! Especially if they would then add that hey look forward to the other genders!

It also really kinda sucks that they haven't been working on the races as long as one would think. Especially with concept work from all the way back from Heavensward!

I can pretty much guarantee that they didn't say this up front because that would be like admitting defeat or failure. This isn't something that anyone likes to do, but as I understand it, it's especially true within Japanese culture. So for them to say "we wanted to do this, but we couldn't" is very out of character for them. Additionally you won't often hear them say they won't ever do something in the game, so I think it will be difficult to interpret their intent on this issue unless they definitively say that the other genders are coming.

Edit: correcting verbiage, stated other races instead of other genders.

[reivaxe]

I want boi bunbuns, but i wholeheartedly expect that if we get them, the female lions will come along with them. I never intend to play as a lion, so i'm not overly concerned about them - but i do think if SE is going to add them in, they should finish the job. Plus /some/ people do want them. But... yes, you are somewhat correct. I believe we should get both genders added, as a matter of course, but i'm definitely more concerned about the viera because they're what i want. Its a video game. Nothing wrong with me wanting something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No, there's nothing wrong with wanting something. But it's disingenuous to me to act like you actually "want" something you don't care about just cause it would look bad to ignore it.

Like how it's perfectly fine to be disappointed at no male Buns and express that feeling ... but it's disingenuous to start calling the devs sexist or homophobic for not giving them to you, as if there's some kinda morality at stake or they're taking a stance against certain people.

So yeah, I found this reveal funny. Because all the people up in arms about Male Viera being "cut" in favor of this "buff, masculine" race plus how gender locking is bad and they want the male Viera freed were under the assumption that Viera were locked in first and Lions replaced the dudes. But now we know that them Lion Bois were the ones we were getting and the Viera would have been ignored completely again had there been no gender lock decision.

[Vanitas]

Please bear in mind that this would have been the first game to ever feature a male viera outside of concept art in all of final fantasy. That means unlike female viera and ronso, they would have had to make this model out of scratch since there's no existing assets for it.

They've said it themselves that they used the ff12 model for fran and put it in this game and they've likely done the same for ronso seeing as the ff10 remaster came out not too long ago. Asset resuse makes what is likely a long and tedious process a slighty less long and tedious process and with the usual time constraints they always seem to have near expac release I think its safe to say that making a new model for a gender of a race that has never existed in any other final fantasy game ever ON top of the usual work they have to do for new races (adjust all weapons, armor, mounts, and god know what else to scale to whatever size they choose for them as well as shaping every single piece of armor to the model's figure) I think it's safe to say that this lofty endeavor just wouldn't be ready in time.

As much as I have no desire to see limsa full of bunny boys in speedos, I'm sure EVENTUALLY we'll see them in the game along side female ronso. As for why female ronso isn't in the game 1. Insert time constraints meme here. 2. Imagine the hellscape these forums would be now if they released male and female hrothgars and only female viera?

[Tlachtga]

So instead of two genders of a single new race, they went for two different races instead. I can see why. If there's constraints, might as well do more new stuff.

And as we all know when parts of the community complained about Eureka and Blue Mage, anything new is great for MMOs and you should always give it a chance before criticising it. After all, its impossible to judge something before its fully released

[Crushnight]

So male Hrothgar never replaced male Viera, but instead female Viera replaced female Hrothgar? For some reason there are not many anti-genderlock activists saying they would have preferred to give up female Viera to get a full Hrothgar race.

From Fran's reveal i wanted bunbois in ffxiv before that i have wanted to see a male viera since ff12 release so i have wanted male Viera for a long time my eggs are in and have been in that metophical basket for a very long time (less so in ffxiv), but i hate gender locks more than i want male Viera and the moment the Hrothgar name was leaked i have advocated for both male Viera and female Hrothgar (Look in Gender lock Megathread), so i am a firm believer that if the choice was between Female Viera and Female Hrothgar Viera should not have happened they made the wrong call in my eyes and this all has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

[BillyKaplan]

So male Hrothgar never replaced male Viera, but instead female Viera replaced female Hrothgar? For some reason there are not many anti-genderlock activists saying they would have preferred to give up female Viera to get a full Hrothgar race.

[..] the irony of it all is that making a Hrothgar female would've spared us this genderlocked nonsense. Knowing we could've had a full race only makes it more bitter, in a way.

On the first page of this very thread You won't find us if you won't look for us.

[Kalise]

My guess is that they don't want to promise something and be expected to held to it. Better to just leave it open so there's no further time constraints, because if you say "a later date" then all you'll get is a hounding WHEN WHEN WHEN.

You're implying that this won't happen anyway without stating anything.

For as long as these genders remain missing, people will be asking when they will be added.

I mean, people have spent years asking when Viera would be added despite them not being confirmed until Paris Fan Fest

[Duskane]

really should have just stuck with Hrothgar male and female
either leave viera out or have quenched peoples thirst with a race similar but not really them