It makes zero sense for the PLD class to have three different skills for AoE

[CarnivalNights]

Circle of Scorn, Flash and Total Eclipse are three skills that can be consolidated into one or two skills.

Give Total Eclipse Flash's enmity gain and give Circle of Scorn Flash's blind for starters.

There's probably better ideas out there, but three 360 degree skills bloats the Paladin's hotbar.

[Kalise]

Yo dawg I heard you liked AoE so we gave you AoE with your AoE so you can AoE while you AoE!

(Still has worse AoE than DRK...)

But yeah, Flash being incorporated into Total Eclipse makes sense especially in ShB after TP is gone so there's not even the fringe case of them using 2 different resources to justify their existence.

Circle of Scorn is different though, because it's an oGCD so it gets used even against single targets because it has no cost associated with it. Though, I could totally see it getting Flash's blind and just replacing Flash with Total Eclipse completely (Including the level at which it is learned so that PLD has a damaging AoE at the same level as WAR and DRK)

That said, technically, DRK has 5 AoE skills (Unleash, Dark Passenger, Abyssal Drain, Salted Earth and Quietus). It's just that most of these are oGCD's or have alternate effects/CD's to make them more justifiable.

PLD's issue is Flash and Total Eclipse fill the same role, which is spammable AoE just arbitrarily one has the enmity boost on and the other has the damage. (Though, it's similar thing for DRK with Unleash/Abyssal Drain where both have enmity boost just one does more damage and can also be used to gain life. While being TAoE instead of PBAoE...)

On a completely unrelated note... I kind of wish WAR had an AoE that could generate Beast Gauge so as to be able to build up for Steel Cyclone/Decimate while AoEing rather than having to decide between Overpower spam for AoE damage/enmity or ST combo's for gauge to use these AoE spenders...

[Jandor]

I imagine one of them is going in ShB to be honest.

I hope it's Eclipse personally, and Flash upgrades in to a magic lightning AoE.

[Lyth]

I think a lot of this will depend on the aftermath of the removal of TP. Ideally, you'd have a situation where Total Eclipse was a free, but lower damage baseline enmity tool, with a new holy magic styled sword skill that was buffed with Requiescat. Just look at Agrias from FFT for inspiration.

On a completely unrelated note... I kind of wish WAR had an AoE that could generate Beast Gauge so as to be able to build up for Steel Cyclone/Decimate while AoEing rather than having to decide between Overpower spam for AoE damage/enmity or ST combo's for gauge to use these AoE spenders...

WAR has the best burst AoE out of any of the three tanks by a very large margin, in a game where burst is king. I don't think we need to make the most overpowered tank more overpowered, no pun intended. If the Vegas fanfest Q+A is any indication, it's high time to rein in WAR's damage output, and rightfully so.

[Kalise]

WAR has the best burst AoE out of any of the three tanks by a very large margin, in a game where burst is king. I don't think we need to make the most overpowered tank more overpowered, no pun intended. If the Vegas fanfest Q+A is any indication, it's high time to rein in WAR's damage output, and rightfully so.

*Sigh*

Can we not start this unmitigated anti-WAR bias crap again?

Especially not when we're talking about an aspect of tanking where DRK is literally the best of all 3 tanks, which is AoE damage output?

Yes, WAR has Inner Release which is nuts, but outside of that one specific CD every 90 seconds, DRK > both other tanks for AoE.

Also, when we're heading into a brand new expansion that will be changing all classes in a dramatic way, talking about how "Balanced" a class is or is not currently is moot.

[Lyth]

AoE tanking almost always happens in short bursts, unless your dps are asleep. Once you get PLD and DRK to 70, you'll hopefully have a better appreciation of this.

DRK AoE tanking is probably the most interesting of the three (which isn't saying much), but that's just a reflection of the fact that it's one of the few situations in which DRK's resources actually get to syngerize and interact in interesting ways.

Also, if you don't want the discussion to involve WAR, then don't bring WAR buff requests into an unrelated topic, yeah? I've seen too many overpowered requests from the WAR community become reality this expansion, simply because the devs think that if they cater hard enough to you, people might actually want to tank in this game. The reverse is actually true. Let's not repeat the past, this coming expansion.

[shao32]

DRK aoe is consider better for the self-healing and mitigation it offers at the same time if you do it properly not for the damage witch WAR is superior easily specially since the encounters don't live more that 2 min and they have plenty strong CDs, so its mostly an illusion of being extremly good bcs feels and looks strong but they are more comparable that ppl thinks, DRK sustain himself better and WAR burn everything faster before that become a problem, and I don't think WAR need generate gauge when every time they use a gauge skill (except onslaught and upheaval) reduce the cast of infuriate already.

About OP I believe PLD need more aoe options, even a magic one that works with requiem cast like a direct upgrade of flash under requiem or something, his damage and aoe combinations are too basic and low to feel good to play with it at least for me.

[Khalithar]

I want Flash to get upgraded to Holiest of Holy in sbr.

[Kalise]

Also, if you don't want the discussion to involve WAR, then don't bring WAR buff requests into an unrelated topic, yeah? I've seen too many overpowered requests from the WAR community become reality this expansion, simply because the devs think that if they cater hard enough to you, people might actually want to tank in this game. The reverse is actually true. Let's not repeat the past, this coming expansion.

Whether or not the discussion involves WAR has no bearing on you coming in with your crying about WAR at every single chance you get.

Note that my suggestion had no relevance about damage output, merely asking for fluidity of an AoE rotation for WAR that actually works with the tools it has available.

Yet, because you so biased against WAR you instantly took it as an opportunity to rant about how "Overpowered" WAR is and take it as if I said "I wish they made WAR just instantly delete all other tanks when it used Overpower lelelelelelel"

[Daniolaut]

I personally don’t believe in ability bloat.

But flash is the worst action in the game.

It looks bad, it sounds bad, it has the worst enmity gain, and does 0 damage.

While the blind is a nice aspect, that’s literally all it has going for it.

Please stop trying to play the game with1 hotbar though. I play on gamepad and have many empty slots, I also repeat “shield lob” and other actions on multiple hot bars, use all actions, and yes still have empty slots....

Why do people try to jam actions into just 2 bars and then refuse to limit break will always be beyond my comprehension. But hey I don’t pay your sub.




Edit:

Just to help clarify, If I removed the actions that are on my second hotbar off, that are on my first one... My second hotbar would have 6 empty slots, my third hot bar currently has 7 empty slots if I remove sustaining potions (used in Palace of the dead) and my role ability hot bar has 7 empty slots, which also has on it limit break and sprint.

So please. People. Stop trying to jam all your actions onto just 1-2 hot bars. Its really not dificult to cycle between 3 hot bars.... Then pressing R1+Square to switch to a role/general hot bar.

If you're a keyboard user having issues, try switching to gamepad? I thought keyboard was supposed to be "superior" anyway?