Need to address the Eureka in the room.

[Floortank]

I’ve never once held back my hated for all of Eureka. Something about it makes me turn the game off. Adding it to 5.0 will seriously hurt the game. With the exception of starlight, all of the holiday events were horrible and lacking. This is of course my opinion.

Do you think the game can survive more Eureka?

Balmung has more people now than it did before Eureka launched, so despite people saying Eureka is killing the game for four updates, actual census data shows that it hasn't put anyone off from playing, at least on my server.

[Physic]

Except when there aren't. Or people don't care about grouping for anything but FATE Trains because they're max level for the zone and the only thing they need to do is farm FATEs for crystals?



I mean, if you're a DPS, perhaps it's better. But as I'm a Tank main and Healer secondary... Well, at times I get annoyed when I have to wait 5 whole seconds for a DF queue to pop...

like i said, unless you are a tank. I can tell you that dps commonly waits 10-30 minutes trying to queue dungeons.

in pyros there is a logogram which gives you 60% more dps, until you die, you can also get a manaless heal. If you are the best/first tank you will pull hate on boss, and usually healers will spam heal you, because healing the one taking the damage gives credit in the fate. Also tanks can almost always get gold credit easily, due to aggro skills counting way more in fate credit. Also feeling like you need a healer to tank is basically most combat content in this game. Even open world, you generally need a chocobo backing you up.

farming logograms comes down to knowing the bestiary, and figuring what/how to kill, and doing bunny fates.

me and two friends took another friend from 27-34 in pagos yesterday in a few hours. There were many light farm, exp farm nm prep party shouts almost non stop. Tanks are valuable. If you actually want to, i can help you level in pagos if you want. It wont be as fast with 3 or more people, but it will still be pretty fast, imo.

also, i am not saying pyros will definitely feel better for you, its possible this specific content is just a bad fit for you, that doesnt make it horrible content. I tend to get bored in 24 mans, it is what it is.

[Kohdo]

People found a way to play Eureka somewhat enjoyably in Anemos by riding the NM train, and Square didn't like that people were playing the content in a way they didn't intend, so they nerfed the train hard in Pagos (which they thankfully reversed somewhat).

Their approach with Eureka so far is to persist with their design choice regardless of player feedback. I can definitely see them adding more Eureka in 5.x, and I can see them ignoring all criticism of it.

Balmung has more people now than it did before Eureka launched, so despite people saying Eureka is killing the game for four updates, actual census data shows that it hasn't put anyone off from playing, at least on my server.

Can you really argue that increase in players is due to Eureka? Each tier of Eureka has had less player engagement than the previous one.
Balmung's also locked 9/10ths of the year, so the population will increase any time SE unlocks it, regardless of the state of current content.

[Kalise]

If you are the best/first tank you will pull hate on boss, and usually healers will spam heal you

I can tell you for a fact that they don't. Not all the time.

Some of the time? Yeah, they will. But not all the time. I've noted that many people literally don't bother with anyone outside of their party.

because healing the one taking the damage gives credit in the fate.

As does tossing out DPS blindly. Also, healing people in your party when they inevitably get hit because most people don't actually give a crap about the mechanics because healers focus most of their attention on raising because that too, gives FATE contribution.

Also tanks can almost always get gold credit easily

Again, I don't give a crap about "Getting credit easily"

I want to have fun. I play video games for fun.

It's not fun to be a Tank doing NM's. It's not fun to be thwacking away at a NM not giving a crap about anything because my DPS is not as high as actual DPS classes and my DPS rotation is lame because I'm a Tank and usually have Tank things to do. It's not fun to be off-tanking the adds which are literally just open world enemies that are kind of boring but also ridiculously OP so that if I don't have a healer I won't be able to actually survive multiple adds even with my magia set to defence (Ironically, there's actually more merit to having magia set to offence because the massive damage boost it provides gives me ton of self healing and yet, even with this absurd amount of damage output, killing the adds myself is still crummy and I have to hope some of the DPS bother to help take them out instead of focusing the boss)

Also feeling like you need a healer to tank is basically most combat content in this game. Even open world, you generally need a chocobo backing you up.

I assure you, you do not.

I haven't pulled my chocobo out on my Tanks since ARR when I first got the thing. This includes soloing overworld NM's at level.

Chocobo heals are only necessary for non-Tanks, outside doing Raid FATEs (But then they're RAID FATEs)

Even in dungeons I don't always feel 100% reliant on healers, there are times where CD usage can prevent the need for healing for short periods of time. In Eureka this is not the case, where I can't even feel like I can take on normal mobs without needing to shift into hyper-self sustain mode.

farming logograms comes down to knowing the bestiary, and figuring what/how to kill, and doing bunny fates.

Whee, more FATE grinding so I can FATE grind to be able to FATE grind.

What joyous new and interesting content this Eureka is. Not like we've never had FATE grinding in the game before

its possible this specific content is just a bad fit for you, that doesnt make it horrible content. I tend to get bored in 24 mans, it is what it is.

24 man content is also horrible though. So that's not a particularly weighty argument there.

But what makes Eureka "Horrible content" is the fact that it is almost exclusively the same content. Grind FATEs.

It's touted and often referenced as "Trying something new" but it's not. It's just FATE grinds. The exact thing that has existed forever in the game.

Back in ARR/HW people would FATE grind for levels in places like Central Coerthas/Northern Thanalan (I.e. Two areas where the MSQ notably doesn't level you to the next quest properly so you stall out)

Back in ARR/HW people would also FATE grind for relics (Atmas and Shards)

Now, I like to participate in the occasional FATE grind. But there's nothing much else going on with Eureka. There is NO other way to earn crystals. This, coupled with things like the asinine elemental experience which serves little purpose (Like, I'd get it if it felt like it was necessary other than to artificially pad out the grind of being able to grind FATEs because Eureka has nothing else to offer) makes me consider it horrible content.

If there was an alternative way to earn crystals that wasn't FATEs then I'd be less harsh on it. Mayhaps I'd even come to enjoy it.

But as it stands now, this "New" and "Exciting" content is the same old stuff we've been doing for years. Only now, we have to actually kill stuff to make FATEs spawn (Sometimes for 10-15 minutes even with 50+ people mass farming enemies), when we're not killing stuff to fill up our arbitrary experience bars.

Like, say what you will about ARR/HW relics, but each step of their paths could be done with different content. Even when you get to the Poetics farming you had several options in order to attain them.

With Eureka it's not the case. You only get crystals from FATEs. "Oh but FATEs aren't efficient for getting experience, you should chain mobs in a party" I hear people say in response to this. But that's irrelevant. Unless you can tell me how much experience I need to earn to upgrade my weapon, it's all about FATEs until you get to the light and logos farm stages. Which, from my understanding tends to lead to bunny fates too...

[Reynhart]

People found a way to play Eureka somewhat enjoyably in Anemos by riding the NM train, and Square didn't like that people were playing the content in a way they didn't intend, so they nerfed the train hard in Pagos (which they thankfully reversed somewhat).

No, Pagos was developped before Anemos was released, so they didn't take any Anemos feedback. They didn't expect people to create the FATE train. They thought people would chain normal mobs for XP and kill the occasionnal NM spawn, so Pagos was made with that thought process, only "harder" than Anemos.

Can you really argue that increase in players is due to Eureka?

No, but if the playerbase didn't decrease, we can certainly argue that there's no reason to suggest that Eureka would somehow kill the game.

[Ticks]

I am actually liking it. And it makes me feel proud of my relic after completing it, for it was a grind and involved alot of work.

Started my second one now.

[Dragoon4life]

To all the Eureka defenders out there. What do you like about it? Bc standing at the bunny fate is boring, not getting a bunny after doing 7 bunny fates is not fun, get a bunny then taking all my ninja skills to avoid dying to get a bronze is not fun, never getting a good coffer is not fun. Get my butt handed to me by a mob 1 lv ahead me is not fun and then shouting for a raise for 5+ mins is boring. Don’t even get me started on light grinding. I just don’t understand why it’s defended. If the relic wasn’t tied to Eureka it would have never stood and would’ve died harder the deidum.

[Physic]

To all the Eureka defenders out there. What do you like about it? Bc standing at the bunny fate is boring, not getting a bunny after doing 7 bunny fates is not fun, get a bunny then taking all my ninja skills to avoid dying to get a bronze is not fun, never getting a good coffer is not fun. Get my butt handed to me by a mob 1 lv ahead me is not fun and then shouting for a raise for 5+ mins is boring. Don’t even get me started on light grinding. I just don’t understand why it’s defended. If the relic wasn’t tied to Eureka it would have never stood and would’ve died harder the deidum.

figuring out how to level up effeciently, fight a variety of monsters/bosses and become stronger and more adaptable than anywhere else in the game, with a few friends is pretty entertaining.

personally i never really loved bunny fates, but i never really had to do it if i didnt want to. Some others love them though and never stop doing them


oh yeah, and fighting that monster one level higher when solo was actually pretty entertaining, because it was an actual threat.

[Reynhart]

To all the Eureka defenders out there. What do you like about it?

First, there's a completely irrationnal overdose of tome farming that drove me there. After that, the exploration part was nice, with your character becoming stronger and stronger, allowing you to roam further and further away from the camp, starting from hiding behind the train being nearly useless up to main tanking the most powerful foe in there or leading the train.

But, most importantly for me, the social aspect of the content made it really enjoyable, with people organizing with each other, giving hints, suggestions, directions, and back-up help because they all expect you to do the same. This content made the community actually feel like a community, outside of the usual Free Company bonds. Being a niche content, you also end up crossing path with the same people more than once, something that extremely rarely happens in other content (Statics notwithstanding).

[Alucard135]

To all the Eureka defenders out there. What do you like about it? Bc standing at the bunny fate is boring, not getting a bunny after doing 7 bunny fates is not fun, get a bunny then taking all my ninja skills to avoid dying to get a bronze is not fun, never getting a good coffer is not fun. Get my butt handed to me by a mob 1 lv ahead me is not fun and then shouting for a raise for 5+ mins is boring. Don’t even get me started on light grinding. I just don’t understand why it’s defended. If the relic wasn’t tied to Eureka it would have never stood and would’ve died harder the deidum.

Let's see now, we have dangerous mobs that you can't just pass by them without fearing you'd get killed by them if you're not careful. Requiring you to be in a group to do any kind of activity, which is why it's an MMO. The interaction between players when they group together to spawn an NM and the NM train. Even if it's grindy, it's still less grindy than the previous relic style and there are lots of people who actually got their relics in each zone in 1-2 days (except Pagos, cuz it sucks). No flying (that's my personal opinion but it's not like it's a deal breaker or anything to me) because flying limits how the zones are made in order for them to take into account what you can see when you're flying really high (perhaps after dropping PS3 and 32bit support we would see some improvements in ShB zones). The logos actions can create a very fun experience (like reflect farming). Having a different leveling system, which makes you explore the zone carefully and not just go wild just because everything is at your level and also, once you do it, you don't have to repeat that step for all other relics (unlike the previous style). I can cap my tome stones easily. And of course BA.

Is it a perfect content? I wouldn't say so. There are things I hated about it like not being able to level sync with your party to be able to efficiently help your low level friends. Being in an instanced zone. The quests with Krile are boring and only each couple of levels (at least they should add more side quests that require group work).

The things I'm neutral about and doesn't bother me nor do I care about are deleveling when you die, and the mount restriction (although it gives big benefit to multi seat mounts and also creates a nice atmosphere when high levels offer low levels a ride to help them pass dangerous places to NMs).