We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Slicedevice]

Basically phased zones where places where there was essentially different instances of the same place. Where people could only access the instance that was relevant for them and could only see other players within the same instance.

For example with The Fringes and the Velodyna Gate:

Player A is brand new to the zone and hasn't done any MSQ at all. So in their instance, the gate is closed and there might even be some Imperials patrolling the area because that gate is under their control.

Player B has done the MSQ for the zone but hasn't done any BT quests yet. So in their instance, the gate is open because the Resistance have captured it. But it's still the standard boring Imperial design because they haven't helped with the restructuring yet.

Player C has done the MSQ and finished the BT quests. So in their instance, the gate is open, the golden gryphons adorn the gate, they have all of the additional rooms unlocked and they now have Anantas and Resistance members patrolling around as well as NPC's travelling to and from the place.

Whilst Players A, B and C could all be on the same server and even in the same party, they would not be able to see each other if they go to the same place, as they'd be in different instances until Player A or B progressed to the same point as Player C.

The way that WoW did it, was that this phasing process only happened in specific areas. So that for 90% of a zone, it'd work like any normal zone so Players A, B and C would all see the same thing and could group up and kill stuff and it'd be no problem. With only when entering the phased area that they would be then separated into their different instances. For example, in this case it'd only come into effect when these players went near to the bridge.

Ah i see! I think the only issue with that in FFxiv is that they would have to add even more zones that way, if i understand it correctly. it sound similar to Doman reconstruction though, i guess they could do something like that and make more of an impact on the gameplay, sounds good tbh.

I've been thinking about this before, where in The Fringes its still so many remains of warships and magitek stuff after the war. Would be cool if one could actually clean up the mess in a way like those Phased zones, and probably make it so it adds more settlements around where you do this. Would be a cool BT consept, help the Ananta to claim back their place and clean up the mess with them.

[Kalise]

Ah i see! I think the only issue with that in FFxiv is that they would have to add even more zones that way, if i understand it correctly.

Not necessarily.

Given that Eureka works on an instance system. Where there are multiple versions of Eureka simultaneously and players upon entering Eureka will be distributed throughout the instances depending on an upper limit of 144 players per instance.

Not to mention that currently they do have player specific changes, such as the upgrades to beast tribe areas and also NPC positions based on player progress in quests and also leves that create enemies that are uniquely visible to individuals (Until engaged in combat)

Put these all together and you should, theoretically, be able to create a system where zones adapt based on player progress.

The only issue with such a thing would be the scope and scale of such things. Like, if we took the Fringes and expanded on stuff to clear away like the magitek scrap and established settlements in places like Castellum Corvi... Then there might be issues with players wanting to play with friends but having issues due to phasing (A complaint made in WoW when they were first introduced) as well as things like FATEs (I.e. A NM FATE spawns right in the middle of Castellum Corvi currently)

It's that thing about being an MMO where people want to play with other people that can get in the way of having meaningful development of zones... Darn people!

[Slicedevice]

The only issue with such a thing would be the scope and scale of such things. Like, if we took the Fringes and expanded on stuff to clear away like the magitek scrap and established settlements in places like Castellum Corvi... Then there might be issues with players wanting to play with friends but having issues due to phasing (A complaint made in WoW when they were first introduced) as well as things like FATEs (I.e. A NM FATE spawns right in the middle of Castellum Corvi currently)

It's that thing about being an MMO where people want to play with other people that can get in the way of having meaningful development of zones... Darn people!

The way i see it is that you would have the BT zone to be a phased zone, like making the bridge a phased zone or something, and not the entire zone itself as it would just divide people. But then again it would just add more zones to the game and we already have this in the game (Doman construction). I think this could work for zones like Rhalgrs reach though, where we would rebuild the city someway.

What i think would be cool is a BT that the entire server contribute towards. SE has been talking about rebuilding Ishgard as a server, so its totally possible. But having a BT doing something insanely huge like this, would make it feel alot more alive in the FF world. Even have the entire server help clean up stuff in Fringes or something would be cool to see.
(I know its a hard topic to talk about, just throwing out ideas)

Anything to make the world more lived in and have BT or other factions actually changing the landscape and doing it more thriving for survival would be so highly appreciated. Maybe seeing different behaviour in enemies after patches, like less and less Imperials in mor dhona or simply changing out some enemies would be nice.
Idk, im on a mindstorm spree so just tossing it out there lol.

[linay]

i think a good dungeon design isnt necessarilly about having tons of enemies, but an overall interesting group of encounters(not just bosses), a few multiple paths, with slight randomization. and perhaps a few special things. I havent played it recently, but before blade and soul had fairly good dungeon design. It was pretty varied, most trash fights had appropriately interesting mechanics. like sometimes you needed to kill specific enemies, some time lazers would spawn in rooms, or you had certain traps. Some times you had to burn an enemy, survive an onslaught, run away, some you can smartly avoid. sometimes randomized thing might make you take a different path or fight a different challenge, and they even had a few hidden events with rare loot here and there.

Also weapons were usually upgraded from various loot, so everyone had reason to do them multiple times.

I'm all for making dungeons more interesting, as long as you can ensure that no enemy is skippable via navigation (skipping via mechanics is fine). Skipping regular enemies is bad enough, but skipping bosses would be even worse. If I go through a dungeon, I want to be able to get as much out of it as I can without having to worry about differences within the party about whether to fully clear a dungeon.

[Shurrikhan]

This isn't really an issue with flying though.

Since you can get similar experiences while on foot. Like, going to the edge of Southern Thanalan and noticing that the edge is a crevasse and beyond that... Some vaguely endless desert in the distance (As opposed to you know, actual ST which is full of mountains and dunes and the like)

Even in newer zones you have places like Azim Steppe and you can go to the eastern side of it and notice the same thing. A giant crevasse (Also, a broken rope footbridge of all things) leading into an endless flat plains? Again, while AS is full of hills, mountains as well as giant stone structures.

The issue seems to just be that SE haven't figured out how to make a believable "Edge of the map" that doesn't seem janky or out of place. Rather than flying being unique at exposing these things.

True. My issue isn't with flight, but simply how easy it is to run into these issue vistas, especially as soon as one can fly; Not many zones are problematic by foot, but is there a single zone that isn't with flight? It feels incongruous with the quality outside that issue. Granted, I'm not a huge fan of map design in XIV in general, but... it's kind of like Hien's outfit: it looks nice only from afar, yet it's zoomed in on with most cutscenes he appears in. And I'm sure there are dozen more issues in this game that fit fall similarly, metaphorically-speaking.

I really don't think flying adds much to game either. All it does is make zones seem bigger and more empty. It is cool at first, sure, but the novelty wore off so fast for me. And there is nothing fun about finding Aethercurrents. The ARR zones are still some of my favorites in the entire game just because of how vibrant and fleshed out they feel. They're smaller but everything in them felt more significant.

Like, I'm not saying to ditch flying all together, but bring the zones back to ARR size or just a tad larger. I don't need these giant maps to fly around in. :v

I don't think the feeling of barely getting anywhere has that much to do with map size, itself, but simply the feeling of location, both insofar as the most important places on the map and the feeling of moving near to those places. None of that is owed directly to map size, but much of it is owed to map design, and often just as much to the gameplay available from such a setting. The open world in XIV feels barren because it is, often artistically but more prevalently -- in terms of gameplay. Without something to do at a given location, there's little feeling of movement. Without a desire to reach the other side, "empty" space is truly empty, rather than a trial, opportunity cost, or adventure of sorts. There's so much more I'd like to see from XIV's map design, but, frankly, I'm not sure how high the pay-off will be so long as it's basically only intended for initial leveling and gimmick grind tasks (Hunts, Anima FATEs, etc).

Nor does a map need to be boundaried "zone" by "zone". In other MMOs, one receives a loading screen only for changing continents, its zones sectioned off only by their natural topography, biomes, or the like. Though one has to spend a bit more ground of the areas of transition, it allows for a much better use of relative space, as locations at the fringes of "zones" don't actually feel so neglected; they are least nearer to passageways and tasks therein where these passages would otherwise be cut down to loading screens.

[Shurrikhan]

i think a good dungeon design isnt necessarilly about having tons of enemies, but an overall interesting group of encounters(not just bosses), a few multiple paths, with slight randomization. and perhaps a few special things. I havent played it recently, but before blade and soul had fairly good dungeon design. It was pretty varied, most trash fights had appropriately interesting mechanics. like sometimes you needed to kill specific enemies, some time lazers would spawn in rooms, or you had certain traps. Some times you had to burn an enemy, survive an onslaught, run away, some you can smartly avoid. sometimes randomized thing might make you take a different path or fight a different challenge, and they even had a few hidden events with rare loot here and there.

Also weapons were usually upgraded from various loot, so everyone had reason to do them multiple times.

Blade and Soul, if one can forgive the little bugs here and there and plays undermanned or undergeared, definitely had some fun dungeons. Most don't exactly feel AAA in quality, but the dungeon mechanics I most praise here (i.e. pre-nerf Pharos Sirius, pre-nerf Demon Wall... and not surprisingly enough far more old dungeons than new) happening in maybe one in ten dungeons here, seem to have something of equal quality there more nearly one dungeon in every three or four.

Honestly, I'd just like to see a dungeon that breaks the mold. Give me an airship battle, if that's what it takes. Bring back in some vehicle/cannon mechanics, but don't treat them as a mere gimmick that breaks role synergy or difficulty; use them to enhance the two. I'd love to see some randomization, too, within which one could still largely choose their routes and related mechanics (just from a different initial fork of choices), similar to T2 or whatnot. There's so much to do with dungeons that it's kind of shocking that XIV has gone on with such a rutt of repetition in their dungeon design in virtually every way but aesthetics. Or, it would if we didn't know the devs better by now.

[Physic]

I'm all for making dungeons more interesting, as long as you can ensure that no enemy is skippable via navigation (skipping via mechanics is fine). Skipping regular enemies is bad enough, but skipping bosses would be even worse. If I go through a dungeon, I want to be able to get as much out of it as I can without having to worry about differences within the party about whether to fully clear a dungeon.

people already rarely full clear, but what you say should be considered

[Shurrikhan]

Ah i see! I think the only issue with that in FFxiv is that they would have to add even more zones that way, if i understand it correctly. it sound similar to Doman reconstruction though, i guess they could do something like that and make more of an impact on the gameplay, sounds good tbh.

I've been thinking about this before, where in The Fringes its still so many remains of warships and magitek stuff after the war. Would be cool if one could actually clean up the mess in a way like those Phased zones, and probably make it so it adds more settlements around where you do this. Would be a cool BT consept, help the Ananta to claim back their place and clean up the mess with them.

I'm curious, though: in your opinion, would it be better to go through these transitions as a community, which essentially puts these pack on patch schedule but with some headstart in terms of patching that community-wide contribution must then catch up to, or on a wholly player-by-player basis such that you see one thing and I see another, such that I'm wondering why you're taking a detour around that patch of flat sand or am unable to see you in the normal world? I feel they both certainly have their merits, but which do you find more lucrative?

[Slicedevice]

I'm curious, though: in your opinion, would it be better to go through these transitions as a community, which essentially puts these pack on patch schedule but with some headstart in terms of patching that community-wide contribution must then catch up to, or on a wholly player-by-player basis such that you see one thing and I see another, such that I'm wondering why you're taking a detour around that patch of flat sand or am unable to see you in the normal world? I feel they both certainly have their merits, but which do you find more lucrative?

In my opinion, its kinda hard right now to give a "Whats best" answer, as we dont have the community aspects of it yet in FFxiv.
I do believe that it would cause some trouble if not executed properly.

I also think that one cant have this as a community event, and have it make a huge difference in the overall world. For example lets say Ananta BT are done as a community with both DoW and DoH/DoL involved. I think the way to approach this is that you have people doing the BTs and over time it changes the area. Not adding more land like in Idyllshire, but maybe seeing more Ananta's thriving around the bridge and along the roads, more tents, vendors and so on.
Now, the only issue would be the people that's going through MSQ at that point, as it wouldnt make any sense to them why theres a bunch of ananta surrounding an important Imperial base in the story.

If they were to execute this in Shadowbringes, it would have to be something they set up while you level. So lets say the new fairy BT's are blocking the road in the new MSQ, you would then have a quest where you had to talk to them in order to gain passage. but after a while when they become BTs, the community befriends them and they start making camps together. So new players doing the MSQ after this would have a slight change of dialogue or something along those lines.
Im pretty sure theres alot more to it than this, but this is how i see community BTs would even work

[Kohdo]

My main concern about the future of this game is the apparent disregard the dev team treat serious player complaints with, and the content drops getting thinner and thinner with each patch.

Oh, and the constant excuses about server stress. You're pulling in a huge amount of revenue from subs, plus the cash shop. If the servers can't even handle additional character customization, it's maybe time for an upgrade.