Need to address the Eureka in the room.

[Nyxn607]

I didn't enjoy Eureka when it first came out. The main reason I didn't enjoy it is two fold.
1. I had other goals at the time besides the relic weapon.
2. My Schedule is chaotic at best and I am rarely ever on at the same time or even same day on a given week.

Once Eureka was "nerfed" I enjoyed it more as it took less time to get the items needed. I am currently in Pyros, and on the last stage of the relic weapon in Pyros (getting the stats how I want). Pyros has had a small nerf, but not a huge one yet (afaik). I am looking forward to getting to Hydatos and trying out BA when I get to it.

I will most likely do the new iteration of Eureka in 5.0 so long as they fix some of the issues 4.x Eureka had, and respond in a good way to the player feedback.

[TaiyoShikasu]

Eureka and the desire for content like FFXI should've been met with the same derision as requests for 1.0 legacy servers.

You might think you want it, but you don't.

[Reynhart]

There's literally no reason for Eureka to be so punishing for solo players.

There's even less reason to purposefully play solo in Eureka. Anyone can queue then join a group inside that, most of the time, won't even care if you're actually targetting the same mobs as them, or simply doing your life elsewhere in the zone.
If you don't want to follow that setup, it would be the same as purposefuly do every content unsynced but at the same level of the dungeon, which is much more "punishin" than Eureka.

Yes, but I also noted that exp gains from chaining (Solo, or team) and FATEs was also garbage to the point that my time was better spent just doing Challenge Logs.

For solo chain, sure CL gives more, but each kill, in the highest zone available for your level, will still give a decent amount of Xp. As for team chaining, this is mathematically wrong, even before adressing that CL is only available once per week.

Which are in fact, more efficient to do in Anemos because you can easily find level 20 CL parties with which to blast through the killing of the mobs required.

Wrong again. Each zone provides easy spots to find mobs of two levels below you, that will take roughly the same time to kill, for much more Xp per kill.

FATEs are the ONLY way to get the worthwhile Crystals (As far as I'm aware. I have yet to receive one of the worthwhile crystals from chains. Even when farming for hours with max chain bonus in a party)

Only if you're of the appropriate level, so following the train to Pazuzu when you're level 5 is useless. But people still believed that it was a good method, and thus avoid chain parties, which made Xp slower for basically everyone.

[AnnaRosa]

I’ve never once held back my hated for all of Eureka. Something about it makes me turn the game off. Adding it to 5.0 will seriously hurt the game. With the exception of starlight, all of the holiday events were horrible and lacking. This is of course my opinion.

Do you think the game can survive more Eureka?

For more strange that appears yes! For the few time spent in those instances could perceive that you have a huge amount of players enjoying the different Eureka experiences.
Dunno the motive can not explain why.

[Kalise]

There's even less reason to purposefully play solo in Eureka. Anyone can queue then join a group inside that, most of the time, won't even care if you're actually targetting the same mobs as them, or simply doing your life elsewhere in the zone.
If you don't want to follow that setup, it would be the same as purposefuly do every content unsynced but at the same level of the dungeon, which is much more "punishin" than Eureka.

You know, other than the fact that despite this being an MMO, not everyone wants to group up 24/7 for every little thing in the game?

BRB gotta find 3 other players to do some MSQ.

Oh, I need to craft this item, better find 15 other people to help me do it!

Eureka is grind content. Grind content takes time, literally, that's what makes it grind content.

Sometimes someone might play on off-peak hours, or might zone into a fresh instance of Eureka, or maybe, they just wanna make some progress on grind content at their own pace and not that of a party.

Eureka sticks a big middle finger up at that. By appearing as a solo content because you can queue up solo and get in solo and do things solo. But being designed in a way to make being solo horrible.

Unlike current expansion dungeons which you literally cannot queue for unsync'd.

For solo chain, sure CL gives more, but each kill, in the highest zone available for your level, will still give a decent amount of Xp. As for team chaining, this is mathematically wrong, even before adressing that CL is only available once per week.

Apparently not for me. I've never got any sort of decent experience from kills, even with max chain.

Yes, CL is only available once per week, meaning that the most efficient way to play Eureka is to go in and level via CL once per week. Maybe farm some FATEs for crystals if you give a damn.

Wrong again. Each zone provides easy spots to find mobs of two levels below you, that will take roughly the same time to kill, for much more Xp per kill.

Except for the fact that you won't always find easy groups at your level and given that the EXP you get from kills is likely terrible anyway (In my experience) it's better to just go to Anemos where there are TONS of level 20+ people to get full groups to more quickly blow through the CL's.

Since sure, maybe some level 23 person can go find some level 21 dudes to kill for CL in Pagos. But it won't be as easy to find a bunch of level 23 people to go with you to farm especially as you immediately exclude level 24 or higher people if you chose to go for the minimum level mobs.

Only if you're of the appropriate level, so following the train to Pazuzu when you're level 5 is useless. But people still believed that it was a good method, and thus avoid chain parties, which made Xp slower for basically everyone.

That still doesn't actually counter my point.

Also, not only if you're of the appropriate level, only certain FATEs are level restricted for getting rewards (It seems to be mostly the ones like Pazuzu that give the random items you need for the final upgrade of the zone). I certainly was able to get Crystals from FATEs well beyond my level, not as many as when I was at an appropriate level, but still some.

So the fact remains that the crystals you need are only from FATEs. Thus, FATE Trains are the most effective way of gaining crystals. Thus when it comes down to it, Eureka, which is basically just for farming the Relic as there's little else to get outside of a few hairstyles/minions/mounts (Which come from FATEs/lockboxes which come from FATEs), is basically just a big FATE Train as content.

FATEs might not be the best way to gain experience, but they're still a way to do so, whilst still being the only way to gain the items needed to progress. Which means that you can literally just FATE Train while using CL's to level up and that's going to have a similar effect to actually bothering to find chain parties to level up (Then doing FATE Trains anyway for crystals)

[Reynhart]

You know, other than the fact that despite this being an MMO, not everyone wants to group up 24/7 for every little thing in the game?

But people are there. You never need to find other people to do it. Unless you're agoraphobic, there's literrally no reason to not join parties in Eureka.

Unlike current expansion dungeons which you literally cannot queue for unsync'd.

Yeah, like ARR content during ARR and HW content during HW, welcome to "current content".

Apparently not for me. I've never got any sort of decent experience from kills, even with max chain.

Then I really don't know which Eureka you played into...

Yes, CL is only available once per week, meaning that the most efficient way to play Eureka is to go in and level via CL once per week.

Depends on what counts as "efficient" for you. Doing your CL and then logout till the next week is not very efficient if you're afraid of falling behind the pack.

Except for the fact that you won't always find easy groups at your level and given that the EXP you get from kills is likely terrible anyway

First, you don't need a group. Second, in every instance I've joined, there was always enough people to cover every bracket of levels I needed. But those people refused to party because "Someone told me following the train is faster".

Which means that you can literally just FATE Train while using CL's to level up and that's going to have a similar effect to actually bothering to find chain parties to level up (Then doing FATE Trains anyway for crystals)

You'll just level much slower, thus being excluded from the high crystal rewards for high lvl FATEs...and that's without counting the time you will try to follow the train in areas where mobs will just destroy you and you'll have to wait for a raise, likely missing the FATE entirely.

[Physic]

the relics are only soloable years after, due to over leveling content and nerfs, i did them earlier and they are definitely not soloable.
?i said crafting and gathering is soloable.

MSQ is not really soloable, fairly often it requires dungeons that needs groups, this is apparently changing though, so you can have msq.

boss fates arent soloable, most of the regular fates are soloable. Low end sidequests are soloable.

however that is honestly a fraction of the content. The vast majority of content is dungeons, raids, trials and 24 mans. It is more than i thought though, mostly because there is a lot of sidequests, which i mostly ignore now. Beast tribes is just sidequests with bst tribe btw.

[Physic]

And?

The fact remains that solo play in Eureka is horrible.

Someone tried to dispute the fact that Eureka solo was horrible by saying it was the most solo friendly content in the game.



There's literally no reason for Eureka to be so punishing for solo players. Since, grind content is often possible in games as a solo player, but as always, made FASTER by grouping up (So you can kill more stuff in the same period of time. Or in Eureka's case, can more easily take out FATEs and get contribution for FATEs)



Yes, but I also noted that exp gains from chaining (Solo, or team) and FATEs was also garbage to the point that my time was better spent just doing Challenge Logs.

clipped

As such, they're necessary to grind out. So your options are to basically leech as a solo/small party and wait for a FATE to pop and go over and get your contribution in before going back to chaining for experience (Or just Challenge Log farming). Or join in a FATE Train and participate in the mass murder of mobs to spawn NM's (While often getting no rewards because Train parties tend to have mixed levels as well as many mobs are low level so higher level players don't get anything anyway)

you can solo there, its just slower like you said.

you dont need to be on a fate train to be useful, if there are tons of people on a fate train, maybe in hydatos, on monsters that are 5 levels higher, but on stuff close or lower than cap, they dont need more than 4-5 people to kill super fast. you can go to some unspawned nm and spawn it with a small group, 3-4 players, or even solo if you are close to thier level, or do your own thing. You only get relic crystals from fates, but you always get crystals when you are appropriately leveled. and never when you arent, this means while you are leveling there are many fates which are totally optional, and you dont really need to go to.

if you hate fates relic in eureka will suck, but for me these fates were fairly entertaining, with varied bosses and mechanics, they were generally rewarding, and i enjoyed always having my full kit, and getting to play my main job.

by pyros, soloing becomes fully viable by using logograms.


also for exp its always best to go to the latest area, there are big jump in exp even for monsters of the same level. a level 20 mandrogora in pagos gives more exp than a level 20 cyclops in anemos. even the bunny fate is like a mid level fate in the previous zone.

your log will get done in any zone you are in, and you get more exp per kill in the latest zone, exp wise there is no reason to do logs in old zones, unlesss you really enjoy the zone, or are hunting something

oh yeah grouping in eureka is way easier than grouping via DF, unless you are a tank. Since there no hard role requirements, you can get stuff done with many different group compositions. type lfg_____ and get invites way faster than a dps in a duty finder.

[Physic]

You know, other than the fact that despite this being an MMO, not everyone wants to group up 24/7 for every little thing in the game?

BRB gotta find 3 other players to do some MSQ.

Oh, I need to craft this item, better find 15 other people to help me do it!

clipped

FATEs might not be the best way to gain experience, but they're still a way to do so, whilst still being the only way to gain the items needed to progress. Which means that you can literally just FATE Train while using CL's to level up and that's going to have a similar effect to actually bothering to find chain parties to level up (Then doing FATE Trains anyway for crystals)

its easy to find groups in eureka, pyros you can solo much more easily with logograms.

let me explain, you get drastically more exp based on your difference in level with the monster peaking at 6 level difference, you take an exp penalty, ie no exp if you are more than 8 levels from the highest member in the party, but really you usually want to avoid anything higher than 6 levels different.

exp split between party members is relative, the split gets less drastic the higher the level difference. So if you have a big group you want to target things way higher, if you have a small group, closer to level.

exp is not based on average level, so a friend who is higher can help you A LOT. he can solo things that give you max level exp, eventually you will catch up and both overall would get better exp fighting higher stuff.

if you are in an 4-8 man party killing things 6 levels higher, you will outpace almost all, but the highest fates in the area. The NM train is the easy relaxing way to level at a decent pace, its not the most effecient.

nm groups in eureka are virtually no commitment many just join for an nm and leave right after. Eureka is extremely good at being casual, or more hardcore depending how you want to handle it. It is however roughest when you first enter.

i completed the relic weapon for eureka faster than i did any other relic while it was current, by far. If eureka relic is a grind, all the other relics are much larger grinds. And none were soloable, involving huge waits on duty finder with no progress for dps.

[Kalise]

But people are there. You never need to find other people to do it. Unless you're agoraphobic, there's literrally no reason to not join parties in Eureka.

Except when there aren't. Or people don't care about grouping for anything but FATE Trains because they're max level for the zone and the only thing they need to do is farm FATEs for crystals?

Unless you're telling me that when I go into Eureka at 4am and there's literally no-one else in the social tab (Just like in Limsa Lominsa at times) there's actually a ton of people there just waiting to invite me to a party.

Depends on what counts as "efficient" for you. Doing your CL and then logout till the next week is not very efficient if you're afraid of falling behind the pack.

I don't give a damn about "Falling behind the pack"

That's why I give a damn about being able to solo stuff for progress when I have the feeling to do so.

Efficient for me is time spent not doing horrible content. To which, I find leveling via just logging in once per week to do CL and otherwise using FATE Trains to gain experience as a side effect of using the to farm for Crystals the most efficient.

Certainly more efficient than the amount of time I've spent sat around asking in Shout for parties when no-one cared about doing the content that I was looking for a party to do (Experience grinding, Challenge Logs, FATE Trains. I've had times where I've searched for an hour for a party for any of these to no avail)

First, you don't need a group.

No, but it's much, much faster with one than without. Especially if you're unlucky with the weather and you only get crappy sprites that are at awkward levels.

Second, in every instance I've joined, there was always enough people to cover every bracket of levels I needed.

Well, it's nice to be lucky enough to encounter that.

I on the other hand, frequently find many players that don't care about various level ranges. So I or other people search for parties at their level range for considerable amounts of time.

You'll just level much slower, thus being excluded from the high crystal rewards for high lvl FATEs...and that's without counting the time you will try to follow the train in areas where mobs will just destroy you and you'll have to wait for a raise, likely missing the FATE entirely.

I haven't encountered a major issue so far as far as crystal gains go. Also, I've never missed a FATE because I died following a train.

Heck, I'm usually the one who goes and raises people who die following the FATE Train and help them get to it in time to get contribution.

if you hate fates relic in eureka will suck, but for me these fates were fairly entertaining, with varied bosses and mechanics, they were generally rewarding, and i enjoyed always having my full kit, and getting to play my main job.

Bingo.

I've yet to participate in a FATE in Eureka that didn't suck.

Also, I hate the fact that being a Tank main makes me feel extra worthless because unless I'm in a party with a decent healer I can't do crap except DPS. I can't heal, I can't raise. I can merely DPS, but less good than an actual DPS class.

At best, if I'm in a party with a healer, I can pick up the adds that people invariably pull and tank them. But then I'm just tanking normal enemies, which also isn't particularly exciting gameplay.

by pyros, soloing becomes fully viable by using logograms.

"Things become better... Eventually... When you use these items people keep complaining about being too RNG and/or annoying to farm"

Gee, I can't wait. /s

oh yeah grouping in eureka is way easier than grouping via DF, unless you are a tank.

I beg to differ.

As a Tank/Healer I click a button I get an instant group in DF.
As DPS, I click a button, I way 5-10 minutes and get a group in DF.

In Eureka, it varies from instant groups, to never getting a group.

Doesn't seem "Way easier" to me. Seems at best, on par and at worst, way more difficult. Especially since part of Eureka's grouping also involves hoping that of the 144 potential people in the instance, that some of them want to actually do the same content that you're wanting to do.

I mean, if you're a DPS, perhaps it's better. But as I'm a Tank main and Healer secondary... Well, at times I get annoyed when I have to wait 5 whole seconds for a DF queue to pop...