Can we report the Baldesion Arsenal discord group?

[lvlagmarink]

Its not about tried or not tried is about what have been observing since the content was released as wrote before from my personal observation on the other player behavior here in forums, Eureka instance shout channel and in the support group.

Since we're on the same data center.. I'm just gonna tell you that at least half of those of what you may call as "hate speech" in the shout channel is nothing more than players trolling and throwing banter.

The amount of "portal snipers" compared to the amount of Players participating in BA are not even significant to say the least.

As for my two cents on this thread, I'm sure there is a message telling players to exchange communications to clear BA, and I'm inclined to believe that communication means to be cooperative.. How can someone whine here on the forum after they are not being cooperative to the majority of the community thinking they are the victims here?

[AnnaRosa]

Since we're on the same data center.. I'm just gonna tell you that at least half of those of what you may call as "hate speech" in the shout channel is nothing more than players trolling and throwing banter.

The amount of "portal snipers" compared to the amount of Players participating in BA are not even significant to say the least.

As for my two cents on this thread, I'm sure there is a message telling players to exchange communications to clear BA, and I'm inclined to believe that communication means to be cooperative.. How can someone whine here on the forum after they are not being cooperative to the majority of the community thinking they are the victims here?

"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

[lvlagmarink]

How can you not have discord? You can even use internet browser to use it. You can even install discord on your phone.
You are not even required to talk, you can even request to raid lead and have veteran helps you on the run.

The only instance i can think of for someone having a reason not to use discord is because they play in their consoles and they dont have a smart phones.. But i'd just like to believe everybody in this modern age who plays the game and having access to the forum has a smart phone.. oh well I'd like to believe.

Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

Well hello? Asking players for a raise in hoping to proceed through the rest of dungeon and clearing it is also a form of communication.. and they failed at that because of their behaviour ealier to "snipe a portal", thus they are uncooperative.

[Alaray]

So sorry as explained before can only join communication channels under SE regulation and no it's difficult to believe players would just go inside the portal to ruin someone else game think there are players who experience the game for the 1st time and can make mistakes.

Not saying you don't have grief players but those usually are known among the community and no those grief players you mean they do not just quit the game, unfortunately they have a repetitive behavior on ruin random players game or one target.

People absolutely grief these runs (and no, not every single person knows precisely who they all are). It wasn't only prevalent on NA with players sniping portals and then leaving the instance to force the overall group to be down a player, but it also hurt a lot of JP players' ability to actually do anything in the Arsenal as it was about as commonplace there initially (to the point people would turn off their streams while trying to get in) and that delayed their ability to actually progress and do the content, and begin to have solid strategies for these bosses for players who aren't as interested in doing a blind run.

I haven't run with people in the Discord. I've seen them in shout, in yell, a lot. I've seen non-full groups pull from the instance's players and provide a link for the Discord in order to have the highest chance for success. I've also never encountered behavior like this from people specifically from there (although there's likely going to be some instances of harassment in general, they're just a microcosm of the overall XIV community on their respective data centers). But if something happens in game, then... report it?

And even the random, non-organized, 16 player run I was in at 3AM because I was bored... there were people leading there, who offered some links to the Arsenal Discord and do organization there. They just explained mechanics, didn't harass people who messed up, and when the run inevitably failed after the side I was on killed the uh... not... Art dude, the Handsy Man, there wasn't much ire just a "ah, well we tried and got some experience at least." It was a very relaxed atmosphere, overall.


No, I'm not excusing harassing a well-intentioned player who wants to do the Arsenal and took a portal. But their own ruleset forbids that behavior... though, just because something is "against the rules" doesn't mean people won't break those rules. In those cases, though it's just... report it (to SE, it's against their rules too).

But the Discord on the whole is trying to provide a service to make BA more accessible overall. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

[AnnaRosa]

You didn’t answer my question: did you actually try BA, or have you still not set foot in there as you previously claimed?

To answer your question no have not tried BA dungeon/raid only many times outside to help support group doing the fates needed for the group advance to the dungeon/raid when am playing have the in game chat log box open with all channels included to know where to go for the next fate, receive personal messages, read say chat to other players that request raise, etc.

As wrote before my opinion comes from the whole threads in this forum not just this one and the behavior that unfortunately experienced during the time helping support group on Eureka instance since the content was released.

[HyoMinPark]

"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

Asking you to join a Discord is asking you to exchange communications.

The BA description in the patch notes and in game explicitly says that you will be required to communicate with your fellow teammates in order to clear and earn the rewards for clearing—

Rewards

Those who defeat the bosses within and clear the entirety of the Baldesion Arsenal will be richly rewarded. To do so will be no mean feat, however─you must communicate well with your fellow adventurers if any of you are to reach the prize.

It just so happens that NA/EU’s preferred method of communication happens to be Discord, probably because if its ease of access, and the variety of methods they can use to schedule runs (e.g., scheduling and queue bots).

You don’t have to speak if you are not leading a run—in fact, the NA one prefers that comms remain clear for important callouts, and run leaders frequently ask for people to mute themselves during boss fights so that idle chatter does not drown out the callouts.

Discord is not difficult to use: you can install it on your computer, your phone, your tablet, etc.; whatever device you may have can use it, even if you are a Console player and not a PC player (I used to use it on my laptop back before I got a gaming desktop and played on the PS4).


A person not joining the Discord has shown that they are not cooperative. I find it highly unlikely that people in this day in age have zero ways to use Discord—rather, they choose not to. But that choice directly hinders the way NA/EU want to communicate in this content, thereby making it impossible for them to coordinate and cooperate. At the very least, it makes it unnecessarily cumbersome—on-the-fly callouts in chat are not an easy feat when you’re trying to do the mechanics yourself.

To answer your question no have not tried BA dungeon/raid only many times outside to help support group doing the fates needed for the group advance inside in Eureka instance, when am playing have the in game chat log box open with all channels included to know where to go for the next fate.

As wrote before my opinion comes from the whole threads in this forum not just this one and the behavior that unfortunately experienced during the time helping support group inside instance.

Okay, so then why say that you’ve tried it when you actually haven’t?

You’re basing your opinion off of a biased game forum that only reflects the opinions of a small amount of its playerbase—a substantial amount of players don’t even post here, yet you would base your opinion off of the minority?

You aren’t actually trying the content itself (doing the Support FATE does not count, as he’s basically just an NM), yet you insist on forming opinions about it and the people who frequently participate in it. Mind you, a lot of players on Aether do not talk in /shout; they use /yell while inside the dungeon so as to not clog up the outside chat for NM call outs. It may be similar on your DC as well, so you may not even be seeing what the majority of people in there think. Again, you’re basing it off of a few people.


Basing your opinion off of the opinions of others with zero effort to actually try the content and form your own independent opinion gives you little merit.

[SaitoHikari]

"players trolling and throwing blanter" it must be.

You are the one making victim or non victim, is not about victimization as you want to make it.

It's more about the attitude you have towards players who do not have access to discord for a variety of reasons and imply because they not have that access they aren't cooperative when in fact they can be.
Other thing no one is asking players to exchange communications to clear BA, simply stating that not all players have access to discord.

I can understand if you don't have discord because your computer simply cannot run it.

What I cannot understand is people being unwilling to download a chat app because of misconceptions about how it's too 'hardcore' or 'unregulated' or something else from the list of boogeymans. It's not even a matter of principle at that point, it's just being an edgy uncooperative fool in content where the devs have stated in-game in no uncertain terms that it requires large scale communication to succeed. And this kind of mentality is another reason why the devs are wise to ignore our side of the community when designing content. No amount of design is going to help people who are unwilling to help themselves - and strangely, on our side of the community, we have a significant population of people who are apparently proud of that.

Recall that even if we take this topic starter's word at face value, it's their word - supposedly acting as a third party posting on the forums on behalf of a friend who actually did participate in the run, so they by default don't even know the full picture themselves - against 40+ other people who WERE personally there and know what happened. Their friend took a portal from an organized group. Okay, that's fine and fair and within the game's rules. But then they're posting on the forums, trying to rally the masses against this group for what happened afterwards, when in reality they're just showcasing their complete failure to take personal responsibility by trying to shift blame to the other participants, while simultaneously displaying ignorance about the cost of deaths and raising in the instance.

Analyzing everything from a logical standpoint makes it hard for me to side with the people that are against this discord group existing. And quite frankly, the amount of energy some people here expend in this weird crusade against this group feels like it could be better spent trying to improve yourself as a player. So that if you wanted to do something like this again, at least the discord group wouldn't be able to talk crap to you because you wouldn't be dying in the first place and risking their entire run.

Still, I have to wonder what your personal stake in this argument is, if you don't have plans to seriously participate in the content despite posting so much about it. I was content to stay out of this thread until I noticed what was happening here, and I am legit curious: Are your grievances focused on the content design, or are your grievances focused on the people running the content?

There's a big difference, and the answer will tell you quite a lot about why the others in this thread are arguing against you (and others with a similar stance) as they have.

[Ishamael]

As someone who has led a lot of BA runs and helped a lot of first timers gain experience with the content, it is frustrating to see the mistaken perception of the Discord community that some seem to have. It is by no means an elitist community. I have seen some of the worst players I know that play this game, be able to join groups and find success in BA. There is no gatekeeping, no checking players FFLogs to see whether they do adequate DPS or can play their role effectively before letting them join the community. Any and everyone is welcome as long as they behave in a civilized manner and can treat others with respect.

With over 4k players in the Aether discord, no one can sit here and say there are no toxic players in the community, but the vast majority are just trying to help others achieve mutual goals. There have been "incidents" with snipers, but usually only after they deliberately have stalked specific groups runs and attempted to troll/grief them. For each "sniper" that has been specifically looking to hinder others efforts, there are many more people that have accidentally joined in runs, and been invited to join the discord as they weren't aware of it's existence.

Just the other night we had a new player take a support portal, and we got them in voice comms and got them an AV and Ozma kill their first time in BA. So please don't assume the entire community is behaving in the same way as the few examples people can cite to prove how toxic and elitist it is. I urge anyone with an interest in the content to join the community wide effort to find success by working with others to tackle this content. Sorry for the wall of text but there is a lot of misrepresentation of the discord community taking place in this thread, and I know for a fact most of it is inaccurate.

[AnnaRosa]

People absolutely grief these runs (and no, not every single person knows precisely who they all are). It wasn't only prevalent on NA with players sniping portals and then leaving the instance to force the overall group to be down a player, but it also hurt a lot of JP players' ability to actually do anything in the Arsenal as it was about as commonplace there initially (to the point people would turn off their streams while trying to get in) and that delayed their ability to actually progress and do the content, and begin to have solid strategies for these bosses for players who aren't as interested in doing a blind run.

Seen some times in our server when one player tries to grief random players game players usually warn via shout channel <pos> so others can see the player caught in the act, obviously you don't know them all but with time you start to understand the cyclic pattern behavior usually and unfortunately they not just quit game, so in your server if you have a player that does on purpose to grief BA runs you most likely will know who he is soon or later.

[lvlagmarink]

Seen some times in our server when one player tries to grief random players game players usually warn via shout channel <pos> so others can see the player caught in the act, obviously you don't know them all but with time you start to understand the cyclic pattern behavior usually and unfortunately they not just quit game, so in your server if you have a player that does on purpose to grief BA runs you most likely will know who he is soon or later.

And let me tell you that in Chaos Data center BA discord, players are adviced to ignore the griefers, "snipers", and anything alike which is to say this is for their own good in case the arguments and griefings turn into report wars.

Can I ask why would you want to have a party with griefers to begin with? This is not all about BA since the core mechanic of this game happens to be MMO where player needs to be cooperative to other players in order to clear contents. The idea of "sniping portals" is not any difference than any other occurences happening in any other contents this game offering when players are unwilling to be cooperative because they have their own way to play the game that's against of what the community as a whole prefers.