Exploring Eorzea's Existing Lore

[Iscah]

We haven't actually seen a full world map to know how big Meracydia and the New World are. They could be nearly as big as Aldenard for all we know and there definitely are other substantially sized continents judging from what we saw of Hydaelyn from outer space in that 3.4 cutscene on the moon.

It's likely they're.... well, continent-sized!

Given the writers' general reliance on real-world geography, and what we know of cultures and plants noted to originate from those places, we can judge that the New World is clearly at least North America, possibly both the Americas, and Meracydia may be a detached Africa. (Or possibly the half of it that isn't melded into southern Aldenard.)

There's also likely to be an Australia-equivalent out there somewhere. Does anyone here have the Koala Joey and/or Frilled Dragon minions? Do the descriptions say anything about where they're from?

I mean, arguably, creating something of a Duskwight city shouldn't be a huge challenge. Just take something like Kugane and replace the skybox with cave background or something. Some might find it a stretch of disbelief to accept such a large cave as to house an entire city, but eh, it could still be presented well (c'mon, if we're not all already thinking it, just rip off some ideas from Menzoberranzan). Seems to me the greater challenge would be creating surrounding areas of similar interest. Given everything we know and interactions to date, seems reasonable to expect any such city to be largely self sustaining, so I can't imagine much in the way of wide avenues and tunnels branching out (except maybe to some degree for inter-city transport?).

Every area presented thus far provides "settlements" and such in surroundings, with scattered aetherytes around for our convenience. But I do struggle a bit to imagine what they could do for that in the Underdark. Which leaves you with potentially something like Kugane, a grand city in a location (Hingashi) that you don't really get to explore.

I think it could be quite doable, especially if you just had the city itself being underground, and surrounding areas outside. Could do some interesting landscapes with potholes and arches. Though I'd like to see a full cave environment too.

For the city itself, larger caverns (possibly with natural light coming in, or lit by crystals) would operate as communal areas, while smaller tunnels and dead-ends would function as "buildings" - walled off at their entrance and used as individual houses or businesses.

For a larger zone set underground, it would definitely need some wider areas where people can move freely. Perhaps some paths that are rather winding on foot, but once you can access flight it "cuts the knot" and you can travel a lot more easily.

Dzemael Darkhold is actually a decent example of what it could be like - if you took away the "dungeon crawling with monsters" thing, lit it more nicely, made it a bit more connected... there are large open spaces and an underground river that flows through it. If you go down a side passage near the start you can look out across a gap to a waterfall, and that's actually coming from the area where you fight the Ahriman boss.

I actually think there's a ton of potential with an underdark type setting, some even foreshadowed a bit! Substitute plants with insane fungus/mushroom/etc. forests (I remember reading that Duskwight cuisines uses mushrooms a lot IIRC?), use fauna that has insane lack of pigment and/or eyes similar to cave fish, geode aesthetics, bioluminescent lighting potentially for rule of fantasy, underground lakes and rivers, volcanic activity, could go on! And architecturally could do so much with intricate stonework and building cities into the surrounding caverns. Maybe since there's similar French influence could draw from Rococo vibes or something. Fun juxtaposition between the darkness and spookiness of caves and something very delicate and beautiful.

Definitely would like to see something like this!

On your side note about Duskwight cuisine, the lorebook says they use a lot of Mun-Tuy beans, which apparently don't need sunlight. (Not sure if they're meant to be based on anything; the "soy sauce" item text says it's similar to Mun-Tuy sauce but that's the closest we get. Probably completely fictional.) No mention of mushrooms, but they'd definitely be a logical choice as well.

Thought your whole reply was interesting to read, this is one bit I'm wondering about though. I thought Wildwood/Duskwight were racial subtypes in the same way that Midlanders/Highlanders are, with Ishgard/Gridania being separated by nation with some racial majorities but not being exclusive? Similar to how Ala Mhigo has a majority Highlander population but there are Ala Mhigan Midlanders too and all.

IIRC that pirate dude who takes WoL to Doma was Ishgardian Duskwight and (while I might be incorrect) I thought there were wiki listings categorizing a bunch of Ishgardians as Wildwood Elezen? I read it as there are different subcultures between various groups of Wildwood Elezen similar to how ex. a Doman Midlander and an Ul'dahn Midlander might be the same subrace but have dramatically different cultures and ethnic features. Also how Yanxian Hellsguard seem to have different cultures from Eorzean Hellsguard while still both being Hellsguard.

Don't mean any of this as some kind of "gotcha", honestly confused here lol. If you don't mind, would you mind clarifying the way this breaks down for you a bit? Like are you categorizing Ishgardian Elezen as a third subrace similar to how Gosetsu is a third subrace of Roegadyn separate from Hellsguard or Seawolves?

Yes, Ishgardians are a third sub-race of Elezen. They just don't have unique models.

Basically there are two elements to races in this game: there are the programmed character models, defined as specific races, that both player-characters and the majority of NPCs are built from - but also a lore aspect which may or may not line up with that programmed race.

At a programming level, there are only Wildwood and Duskwight Elezen. Ishgardian Elezen are a separate clan according to lore, but there's no need to create a new programmed race for them - they use Wildwood (and occasionally Duskwight) character models, but they do not fall within the actual cultural group that is Wildwood Elezen, ie. descendants of Gelmorra, a separate nation that existed alongside Ishgard.

I wouldn't put any weight on information from the wiki - it's fan-written and dependent on individual interpretation. That said, the lorebook itself is a bit wobbly on sometimes calling Ishgardian characters "Wildwood", specifically in the character 'stats' given for job quest NPCs. But in other places it's clear the terms are used separately - the best example being the racial demographics for each city. Gridania's population is (among others) 30% Wildwood Elezen and 10% Duskwight Elezen, while Ishgard is 70% Ishgardian Elezen. Also, full-prose character profiles usually mention their clan, and Ishgardians are either noted as such or just not mentioned - never labeled as Wildwood or Duskwight, as far as I can see.

There are a few Ishgardian characters that I know have Duskwight models from looking at the character data - Ysayle, Grinnaux de Dzemael (but not his grandfather, who we meet in another quest), Edmont (but not his sons), Jandelaine and his twin brother from one of the Postmoogle quests. I'm guessing it's more based on what works for individual character design, rather than any lore-intent behind it. Ysayle has that rather icy skintone, and the others use Duskwight-specific scars or markings.
Edmont is an odd one though, as he has a customised face and isn't designed with any Duskwight-specific features or colouring - although I did realise his face isn't actually unique but is modified from one of the Au Ra faces, of all things... it's pretty unmistakeable once you can see it. His moustache is part of the Au Ra face build, so maybe the colour of it is still affected by the "Clan A/Clan B" switch and needs to be set to 'Xaela' so it's black. Or maybe I'm just way off the mark and there's no real reason for it.

Re. "that pirate dude", Carvallain, he's an interesting one - but first I have to back up a few steps with a kinda-sorta-spoiler (a missable rather than 'future' plot point, which you might not have picked up on). If you join up the right dots, you can work out he's actually the long-lost son of the Count de Durendaire, who was allegedly lost at sea twenty years ago when pirates attacked the ship. (Once you are aware of that, it makes a lot of interactions with him more amusing. Tataru basically blackmailed him into taking us to Kugane by threatening to let the count know what really happened to him!)

So. House Durendaire. That distinct colouration seems to be a family trait - there's the astrologian guildmaster Jannequinard, and we see the count briefly at the end of Dragonsong. Plus their distant ancestor, who we see in the cutscene of Haldrath's knights after the Aery.

I nearly brought them up as an example in my last post, because despite their rather Duskwight-ish appearance, they're all Wildwood character models - and it's evidently an appearance trait that pre-dates both Ishgard and Gelmorra (but isn't very common in the Ishgardian population). So suppose that kind of trait gets stronger in one part of the population, particularly in that group living in the caves - perhaps it gives them some kind of advantage there.

[Jaywalker]

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!!! Eeeeey another drow fan! I haven't gotten to read novels for 'em (if you have any recs please let me know!) but I have done DnD research into lore using youtube vids, wikis, and so on. Find them very interesting!

On cave settings, do you think it would help somewhat to have the area surrounding the city not 100% underground/with varying depths? City itself is totally subterranean but in terms of landscape for enemy encounters you can have spots closer to the surface where rain and sunlight filter through between patches of stone occasionally, with a wider scope. Other areas going deeper could then be more claustrophobic (think similar to Tam Tara Deepcroft or Dzemael Darkhold, parts are wider but other parts get very restrictive). XD I know people love the flying mounts and all, but tbh SE could just say that as you go deeper and hit areas farther from the surface with its air currents you lose that. If there are extensive under water areas you could still use that "underwater flying" swim deal going from place to place for player convenience. It is technically one less feature for devs to need to implement/a bit less work if they wanted to do it.

Dividing into smaller chunks seems like it could potentially work too depending. Could do either a grand civilization approach or could show a collection of settlements similar to the Xaela in a way.

I'm sure someone else will come along with a bigger better explanation, but as I understood it, basically Ishgard was founded (and isolated itself?) so long ago that the whole subrace thing simply doesn't entirely apply to them.

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Thank you guys so much for explaining this omg. I am a bit ??? on Hellsguard in Doma (character model-wise), and at this point am wondering if they’re technically supposed to be a separate subrace from both Gosetsu and Eorzean Hellsguard but without model differentiation to make four known subraces there or if it’s supposed to be the same as Gosetsu but SE didn’t make the models? XD Here I was figuring player options in character creator were largely what was just available in-world with a few exceptions, this is a funny reveal for me.

On your side note about Duskwight cuisine, the lorebook says they use a lot of Mun-Tuy beans, which apparently don't need sunlight.

[…]

Edmont is an odd one though, as he has a customised face and isn't designed with any Duskwight-specific features or colouring - although I did realise his face isn't actually unique but is modified from one of the Au Ra faces, of all things... it's pretty unmistakeable once you can see it. His moustache is part of the Au Ra face build, so maybe the colour of it is still affected by the "Clan A/Clan B" switch and needs to be set to 'Xaela' so it's black. Or maybe I'm just way off the mark and there's no real reason for it.

[…]

Re. "that pirate dude", Carvallain, he's an interesting one - but first I have to back up a few steps with a kinda-sorta-spoiler (a missable rather than 'future' plot point, which you might not have picked up on). If you join up the right dots, you can work out he's actually the long-lost son of the Count de Durendaire, who was allegedly lost at sea twenty years ago when pirates attacked the ship. (Once you are aware of that, it makes a lot of interactions with him more amusing. Tataru basically blackmailed him into taking us to Kugane by threatening to let the count know what really happened to him!)

[…]

So. House Durendaire. That distinct colouration seems to be a family trait - there's the astrologian guildmaster Jannequinard, and we see the count briefly at the end of Dragonsong. Plus their distant ancestor, who we see in the cutscene of Haldrath's knights after the Aery.

I nearly brought them up as an example in my last post, because despite their rather Duskwight-ish appearance, they're all Wildwood character models - and it's evidently an appearance trait that pre-dates both Ishgard and Gelmorra (but isn't very common in the Ishgardian population). So suppose that kind of trait gets stronger in one part of the population, particularly in that group living in the caves - perhaps it gives them some kind of advantage there.

Whoop, thank you for clarifying on the beans! Misremembered there haha. Also omg yeah now that I think of it you’re right on about Edmont using Xaela design. I thought his face looked familiar but couldn’t place it. I think it was just for aesthetics and all (suspect you were looking from that angle too) but pfff imagine if it turned out Haurchefant’s whole family had a little Au Ra heritage mixed in.

Lol I did hear about Carvallain before that scene! Still funny though and appreciate the recap.

That is really interesting on House Durendaire though. It makes me wonder a bit about Elezen history/evolution some and if there’s still lore/civilizatons that the devs haven’t revealed yet.

[Enkidoh]

It's likely they're.... well, continent-sized!

Given the writers' general reliance on real-world geography, and what we know of cultures and plants noted to originate from those places, we can judge that the New World is clearly at least North America, possibly both the Americas, and Meracydia may be a detached Africa. (Or possibly the half of it that isn't melded into southern Aldenard.)

Hydaelyn's Africa is actually Eorzea itself, or at least, very loosely anyway (Aldernard's shape is a close match for Africa, right down to Vylbrand being a mirror-flipped Madadasgar), and that it was, in 1.0 anyway, mostly a 'wild frontier' between a few pockets of civilization (this is why Eorzea to this day is still regarded as 'savage' by the European-stand-in Garleans, besides obviously parroting how ancient Rome regarded other nations other than themselves as barbarians) - albeit one where Europe has detached itself completely from Africa other than Greece and relocated to the other side of the planet and the Middle East is now an isolated island in the middle of the ocean).

There's also likely to be an Australia-equivalent out there somewhere. Does anyone here have the Koala Joey and/or Frilled Dragon minions? Do the descriptions say anything about where they're from?

For all intents and purposes from what we do know of Meracydia it appears to actually be Hydaelyn's Terra Australis Incognita - mysterious island continent in the far south of the planet that is a inhospitable wasteland populated by dangerous wildlife, although Ala Mhigo/Gyr Abania of all places also shares some elements with modern Australia - equally hostile environment with it's inhabitants earning a reputation for being tough-as-nails and gave rise to more than a few talented soldiers - even it's national anthem 'The Measure of His Reach' shares musical (but not lyrical) similarities with Australia's national anthem. (No surprises then that as an Australian myself I had Enki be Ala Mhigan by birth ).

I can confirm the koala joey minion at least says nothing about Meracydia (or even where on Hydaelyn it comes from for that matter) - it's description in the minion guide is just an extended joke about drop bears.

[Jirah]

The world has a lot of poential as is in terms of the lore. I’m annoyed we are going to Ilsabard so early since we still haven’t been to Thavnair, Radz-at-hanz or Bascially the entire island of Koshu where the rest of Hingashi lays and the remainder of Othard since there’s a unexplored peninsula to the north and Naxia to the south

Fun fact I just realized Hein is trying to unite Othard with Dalmasca and Naxia blessings but go denied by Hingashi’s Higher ups in Bukyo as well as Shisui.

There’s a giant covered portion of islabard to the south right next to Naxia, that may be Dalmasca and I wouldn’t be surprised if this may be our course of travel if something happened in Gyr Albania

[Jaywalker]

Yoshi did say "maybe 7.0" for going to the moon... Great...

This is delayed, and while I know you were unenthusiastic about this bit my god I have been wanting Lunarians and seeing this I'm just going !!!!!

[Iscah]

I am a bit ??? on Hellsguard in Doma (character model-wise), and at this point am wondering if they’re technically supposed to be a separate subrace from both Gosetsu and Eorzean Hellsguard but without model differentiation to make four known subraces there or if it’s supposed to be the same as Gosetsu but SE didn’t make the models? XD Here I was figuring player options in character creator were largely what was just available in-world with a few exceptions, this is a funny reveal for me.

The Doman 'Hellsguard' are presumably a separate subrace, though I figure it's possible they share ancestry - perhaps having spread along the northern mountains until they were too far apart to maintain a single culture, and this eastern group broke away and merged into non-race-specific Doman culture instead.

Gosetsu definitely complicates things though - introducing him as a visibly separate subrace and then using nothing but standard Hellsguard models for other Far Eastern Roegadyn seems like a strange decision. Doubly so as it would be quite viable for them to create a complete (non-playable) "Gosetsu's clan" using Sea Wolf models and customised skintones. There's precedent for this in the game already - specifically Curious Gorge from the WAR questline, who is canonically a Hellsguard but is programmed as a Sea Wolf NPC with an off-the-chart skintone, thus his lacking the usual Hellsguard 'beast nose'.

Though the stranger decision was having Far Eastern Roegadyn at all, or at least so prominently, while not giving Raen Au Ra a bigger role.

(If nothing else, that Confederate leader guy would have worked well as a Raen character. I've also seen someone suggest that Hien could have been Raen rather than Hyuran, which would have been interesting.)

Also omg yeah now that I think of it you’re right on about Edmont using Xaela design. I thought his face looked familiar but couldn’t place it. I think it was just for aesthetics and all (suspect you were looking from that angle too) but pfff imagine if it turned out Haurchefant’s whole family had a little Au Ra heritage mixed in.

I had the same thought pattern - "I'm sure it's just reusing the character model, but what if they actually had some Au Ra heritage...?"

That would go down really well in Ishgard, I'm sure. Heavens help the poor child who happens to redevelop ancestral Au Ra traits that the family didn't even know existed.

...let's just go with "recycled character model", okay?


I have to wonder which one came first though, or if the one model was designed with both purposes from the start. They were both being implemented at the same time of course. Clever double-use of assets anyway.


This does also remind me that a while back someone from my FC was saying that Aymeric had an Au Ra-ish face? Which I didn't get at the time, and still can't really see, but I guess it's possible in the same way. It would probably be face 3 with the 'hammerhead shark' horns, if it is indeed the same sort of situation.

(EDIT: Played around with Au Ra designs and... maybe. Not the same definite "yes that's him!" recognition I got when setting the other one to resemble Edmont, but it's in the general zone of looking similar. Might be a matter of finding the right settings, or could just be a result of the same artist making both characters.)

Lol I did hear about Carvallain before that scene! Still funny though and appreciate the recap.

Funny thing with that - I figured it out myself, but I'd sailed past a number of hints without picking up on them, only to catch on by noticing the family resemblance! Combined with remembering that the AST quest had alluded to a missing family member, anyway.

I'm greatly looking forward to whatever resolution we eventually get to this. At least I hope there's a resolution coming - and some more dancing around it in the meanwhile. All sorts of potential interesting interactions.

That is really interesting on House Durendaire though. It makes me wonder a bit about Elezen history/evolution some and if there’s still lore/civilizatons that the devs haven’t revealed yet.

There's definitely one more potential Elezen civilisation in Ilsabard - using Duskwight models, interestingly enough, though we'll have to wait and see if they're actually linked or not.

The destroyed rebel camp we briefly see at the end of 4.4 seems to have a number of Duskwights there, and one of Shadowhunter's companions is also a Duskwight.

Hydaelyn's Africa is actually Eorzea itself, or at least, very loosely anyway (Aldernard's shape is a close match for Africa, right down to Vylbrand being a mirror-flipped Madadasgar), and that it was, in 1.0 anyway, mostly a 'wild frontier' between a few pockets of civilization (this is why Eorzea to this day is still regarded as 'savage' by the European-stand-in Garleans, besides obviously parroting how ancient Rome regarded other nations other than themselves as barbarians) - albeit one where Europe has detached itself completely from Africa other than Greece and relocated to the other side of the planet and the Middle East is now an isolated island in the middle of the ocean).

I've seen this brought up before, and I disagree. The only real support for it is the shape of the continent, which I really don't see as that close - and equating Vylbrand to Madagascar is particularly stretching too far. (It's not the same shape, it's much larger relative to the continent, and it's not in the right place.)

I actually appreciate that you can't simply look on a world map and point out the shape of Eorzea on it. Othard is far too traced from a map of Asia, mountain chains and all - except for the strange decision to cut off Russia entirely (and presumably slide it over into Ilsabard), which is why its northern coast has an odd shape and that very right-angled peninsula. It's traced from a river course, not a coastline.

Eorzea's cultures are clearly inspired by Europe, not Africa. Gridania's fairytale forests, Ul'dah's Byzantine architecture, Ishgard's medieval European architecture, dragons named after Norse mythological figures.

The climate also generally matches Europe's placement in the northern-hemisphere temperate zone, stretching into arctic north and desert south, rather than Africa's location across the tropical equator with desert on either side. (Vylbrand's patches of tropical jungle are a puzzle, and one that bothers me regardless of whether it's supposed to be equivalent to anything. It literally doesn't line up with the climate of Aldenard. Perhaps it's due to the volcano, or an ocean current warming up the area? I'm only running off high school geography lessons here, so I don't know if there's a realistic explanation for such a thing.)

The little we know of Meracydia, besides its unplaceably fantastic elements of dragons and such, is that the plants aloe and sesame originate from there. In reality both are native to Africa, not Australia.

For all intents and purposes from what we do know of Meracydia it appears to actually be Hydaelyn's Terra Australis Incognita - mysterious island continent in the far south of the planet that is a inhospitable wasteland populated by dangerous wildlife, although Ala Mhigo/Gyr Abania of all places also shares some elements with modern Australia - equally hostile environment with it's inhabitants earning a reputation for being tough-as-nails and gave rise to more than a few talented soldiers - even it's national anthem 'The Measure of His Reach' shares musical (but not lyrical) similarities with Australia's national anthem. (No surprises then that as an Australian myself I had Enki be Ala Mhigan by birth ).

I'm also Australian, and I disagree about Gyr Abania having Australian elements. It's too much of a stretch, just on the "reputation" of its people - you could apply that to all sorts of places, I'm sure.

As for the anthem... sure it sounds a bit like ours, but I don't know any others. Is it really "like ours" or is it just the sort of music used for an anthem? Would someone from another country perceive it as similar to their anthem?


Meracydia could have Australian elements as well, but we haven't seen any direct signs of it (other than a potential "frilled dragon" -> Meracydian dragon connection).

I can confirm the koala joey minion at least says nothing about Meracydia (or even where on Hydaelyn it comes from for that matter) - it's description in the minion guide is just an extended joke about drop bears.

Ahaha, well played, lore team.

There’s a giant covered portion of Ilsabard to the south right next to Nagxia, that may be Dalmasca and I wouldn’t be surprised if this may be our course of travel if something happened in Gyr Abania

Dalmasca is shown on the new section of the map recently revealed during the Ivalice raids.

[LineageRazor]

Thavnair would likely be the closest thing to something of a Plainsfolk homeland since they're originally islanders and Thavnair is an island nation. Then again, the flip side to that though is that all we've seen from there are Hyurs.

Wait a minute! Are they plainsfolk or islandfolk? I want to know whether I get White or Blue mana when I sacrifice them! D: