Male Viera (BunBros) - We Want Them - With Heels!

[Fenral]

I think if the lore for any race in any setting involves institutionalized sexism with a 100% compliance rate, it's just kind of fundamentally weird and unrealistic. Any tradition, no matter how old/noble/whatever, will always have outliers emerge as a natural byproduct of self-determination. It's how society develops to begin with.

Unfortunately, the lore (this is still the Lore forum) is indeed pointing towards exactly that, and may even do so for a second, male-only race as well. I'd like to believe they know that pulling another blatantly sexist Mithra/Galka split will trigger a ninth Calamity, so at this point I'm really just hoping that the [REDACTED] have enough of what people would want from male Viera to satisfy that particular demand.

Is Japan Fanfest really still a month out? I don't remember Heavensward or Stormblood killing me with the waiting like this...

Now I'm going to go cry in a corner because my efforts to get Moriarty, one of only 3 characters I genuinely want in F/GO, have been for naught... so far....

I got his NP2 when that chapter hit JP servers, and didn't get ShinShin at the time. FGO's limited banners are the actual worst. After blowing my anniversary Quartz (close to 100 rolls) failing to get Skadi, I'm on break until Muramasa and/or Galahad come out.

[LineageRazor]

I think if the lore for any race in any setting involves institutionalized sexism with a 100% compliance rate, it's just kind of fundamentally weird and unrealistic. Any tradition, no matter how old/noble/whatever, will always have outliers emerge as a natural byproduct of self-determination. It's how society develops to begin with.

In fairness, in the case of this particular tradition, 100% compliance is pretty enforceable. I have little doubt that a male pops up every now and then who resents the status quo - but what is he going to do? Because males are born infrequently, he may well be the only one in the village.

Once he's forced out of the village, finding allies of the same mindset could be very difficult, both because Viera males make a point of keeping themselves hidden and also because most likely accept their situation.

Perhaps once every century or so, the stars align and a handful of disgruntled males manage to ally and make an attack on the village - either an "attack" in the form of peacefully petitioning for change, or actual force of arms, or one then the other - but there's still a LOT more living in the village than were able to organize an attack, so those assaults are likely easily repelled.

Fortunately, we know that disgruntled Viera males DO have an outlet: They can leave their traditions behind, and go to live in the outsiders' cities. They just can't go back to the village.

The only way I could see a men's rights initiative gaining any traction within the village itself is if the solitary rebel male living there at the time had a lot of female allies. Perhaps if he was popular and charismatic while still gender indeterminate, and made a wide network of friends. Apart from that, the all-female village winds up being kind of an echo chamber when it comes to tradition...

[Tabbs]

...

The Nu Mou seem to share the Rak'tika Greatwood with one of the Viera clans. It's a bit of an assumption for now, but I don't think it would be too absurd for a disgruntled male Viera to choose life with other forest dwellers rather than abandoning the Wood and Word entirely. Assuming they'd take these Viera males at all, that is.

That aside, I think leaving the Wood is the point Fenral was trying to make. You can't really force change in these Viera cultures when there are so few males, sure, but leaving counts as non-compliance. Living with Nu Mou and not being a Wood Warder would count as non-compliance. I think he's trying to say that it doesn't make sense for 100% of the men to undeniably be okay with the state of things, but not necessarily that they would try to force a change so they can coexist.

[Fenral]

Fortunately, we know that disgruntled Viera males DO have an outlet: They can leave their traditions behind, and go to live in the outsiders' cities. They just can't go back to the village.

Great post, but you actually read way to much into what I was saying. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no male city Viera, at least according to the Dramaturge. All I was getting at was that, for that to be true, 100% of all male Viera had to conform to societal norms in regards to both staying out of the village and also never leaving the Wood, when there realistically should be at least some outliers.

[Cilia]

Great post, but you actually read way to much into what I was saying. The simple fact of the matter is that there are no male city Viera, at least according to the Dramaturge. All I was getting at was that, for that to be true, 100% of all male Viera had to conform to societal norms in regards to both staying out of the village and also never leaving the Wood, when there realistically should be at least some outliers.

Sure, possibly. Plausibly.

But would there be enough to constitute them being playable? I'm not so sure.

While it was said male Miqo'te aren't seen often, their lifestyle lends itself to vagrancy, so having one be an adventurer isn't out of the question. There was never a reason female Roegadyn and Hyur Highlanders weren't playable - maybe they just didn't think enough people would play them to justify it, maybe they weren't due until next Tuesday (and then the staff reshuffling Calamity happened).

Male Viera, on the other hand, supposedly are never seen outside of their home forests; while there may be outliers who don't conform to their societal expectations, they'd be so rare you'd be hard-pressed to find one, ever - there simply wouldn't be enough to constitute them being a playable option. In my opinion.

Again, I hold to the belief that things aren't true until we know they are - and as all races have playable males and females (and the debacle that would ensue otherwise), I seriously doubt male Viera won't be a thing regardless of what a bit of internal data derived from a bug shows (and what the lore supports). I'd be more surprised if they weren't playable (and extremely amused - this game really needs to betray my expectations more to keep itself entertaining), but I honestly don't see that happening purely based on the outrage that would result if it did.

Still no Moriarty. Month lapses in a couple days; maybe I'll have some luck with March's tickets.

150+ F2P Orbs (~2 months worth of saving) into L-Roy's banner; no 5*s despite an 8% base rate that rises as you go without one. (Currently at 11.5%)

Feels bad, man.

Is it Sunday yet, so my group can finish out D&D heist campaign? I want - no, at this point, need - to make that Barbarian replacement character. My considerable rage escalates...

[Tabbs]

...

Even one male Viera being disgruntled by the way things are is enough to constitute them being playable. The player/WoL is already a statistical anomally. They're special. That ONE Viera male is US. What are the chances that a Raen from Hingashi happens to be Hydaelyn's chosen in Eorzea as well as one of less than 10 WHMs alive and a number of other odd statistical things?

I can understand the hesitation to believe they'll be playable (maybe they won't be), but we should be past the statistics and lore excuses by now. We're at a point in this game where those are very poor excuses for gender-locked races when we all know it's because wah wah I was too uncomfortable to model a man in bunny lingerie.

[Bright-Flower]

Even one male Viera being disgruntled by the way things are is enough to constitute them being playable. The player/WoL is already a statistical anomally. They're special. That ONE Viera male is US. What are the chances that a Raen from Hingashi happens to be Hydaelyn's chosen in Eorzea as well as one of less than 10 WHMs alive and a number of other odd statistical things?

I can understand the hesitation to believe they'll be playable (maybe they won't be), but we should be past the statistics and lore excuses by now. We're at a point in this game where those are very poor excuses for gender-locked races when we all know it's because wah wah I was too uncomfortable to model a man in bunny lingerie.

Yeah.

We may well not get male Viera.

But if we do, the lore will be an excuse, not the actual reason we don't get them. Because they could have written the lore another way.

If we get something else, it will be for some out of story reason. Be that because Yoshi P is weirded out by male bunnies, wanting to market '2 new races' with half the work that would normally take, or some other reason. We didn't get this male viera lore until 4.5. Which was long after they would have finalized plans for expansion races. Their hands are not tied by the lore here.