Love for the female characters

[Bright-Flower]

If the Empire never valued Yotsuyu, they never would have given the position of Viceroy to a "barbarian". She had direct command over Imperial forces so it goes beyond the Empire just using her for a primal.

Zenos put her in charge and his reasons were far from 'I value you as a person.' He put her in charge because he wanted the effect that her hatred would have on the domans. And had no qualms with manhandling her when we were in Doma.

[Skivvy]

In XI, my favorite female characters were Naja Salaheem, Prishe, and Shantotto. All 3 were incredibly overbearing, bossy, stubborn, and a bit ridiculous. And I loved them all. Full disclosure, I am a CS skipper, so perhaps I've missed someone, but XIV doesn't seem to have any main players who really fit that description. If there is such a creature that exists, I'll have to start paying more attention to their story :X

[Enla]

Zenos put her in charge and his reasons were far from 'I value you as a person.' He put her in charge because he wanted the effect that her hatred would have on the domans. And had no qualms with manhandling her when we were in Doma.

There's also the psychological element of having your country basically being handed to a former citizen. One that doesn't see you just as a second class citizen like the majority of the Garlean Empire would, but as a culture and people specifically needing to be made to HURT for everything she herself suffered.

[Gemina]

It's very strange. Why treat a Doman citizen as an Imperial and not an Imperial citizen willing to fight for the Empire?

It's because Fordola isn't an imperial citizen, she is Ala Mhigan so she would never rise through the ranks of the Garlean empire no matter what she did. When Zenos took her under his wing, she caught a lot of flack for being his hussy and pet, and to Zenos she was just a low risk test subject. Anything and everything that would happen to her, nobody would care. It was only a matter of how many she can cut down before she herself receives a fatal blow. The ironic thing, is that the low risk that WAS involved with her, the empire ends up paying for. She doesn't die, is eventually captured, gives valuable information to the resistance, and even aids in bringing down an Eikon. Everything that could go wrong by infusing her with an artificial echo does go wrong for the empire. Through the echo, she even comes to learn that the WoL is a giant ball of PTSD and comes to respect him/her.

[Edax]

Don't get me wrong, I never said she was a redeemable character. But it was Yotsuyu who is blood stained, not Tsuyu. If Lord Hien felt as you do, he would have finished her off right in front of Gosetsu without a second thought to bring justice to the Domans.

From my character's perspective, I harbored no sympathy for Yotsuyu and failed to trust her even after Yugiri said that her memory loss is legit. Like I said in my post though, she swapped places with her mirror reflection and was no longer Yotsuyu. Of course, this doesn't erase or pardon her treachery and had her memory never returned and allowed to live out her days as a citizen of Doma, Lord Hien would constantly have to intervene with his people to prevent her from being murdered. Anyone who put her to the blade would be killing a child, and have to be punished accordingly to Doma's laws. What really pissed me off about Yotsuyu was that she was able to flee from Hien's establishment not once, but TWICE! It was almost as if we wanted someone to kill her since we couldn't do it ourselves.

I think the moral of the story is not to have a nice family, but rather everyone is born innocent and monsters are created.

The problem is that nobody in the story was judging people at birth. In fact, Heavensward already covered this territory about generational sin, so as a result nobody changes from this story. Hien wasn't judging people by birth, Gosetsu wasn't judging people by birth and Yugiri was wary from way back in AAR that people might judge her from her birth because of her race. And the WoL already went through the Dragonsong War. Nobody learned anything from Yotsuyu's tale except Yotsuyu's backstory. No one had an arc and nobody learned from the moral "everyone is born innocent" because that was never in dispute. The only time I can think this comes up is during the Samurai class story, which is entirely a Kugane problem with no characters appearing in the MSQ.

It's because Fordola isn't an imperial citizen, she is Ala Mhigan so she would never rise through the ranks of the Garlean empire no matter what she did. When Zenos took her under his wing, she caught a lot of flack for being his hussy and pet, and to Zenos she was just a low risk test subject. Anything and everything that would happen to her, nobody would care. It was only a matter of how many she can cut down before she herself receives a fatal blow. The ironic thing, is that the low risk that WAS involved with her, the empire ends up paying for. She doesn't die, is eventually captured, gives valuable information to the resistance, and even aids in bringing down an Eikon. Everything that could go wrong by infusing her with an artificial echo does go wrong for the empire. Through the echo, she even comes to learn that the WoL is a giant ball of PTSD and comes to respect him/her.

"When Ala Mhigo was under the command of Gaius van Baelsar, he appointed Fordola and other Ala Mhigans born from digitaries as honorary citizens of the empire by serving in the Garlean militant group known as the Cania Lupi." - https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fordola_rem_Lupis

While not technically a full citizen, Fordola was more of a citizen of the Empire then Yotsuyu whom was not even born under Imperial rule or even granted honorary citizenship. Even in the wiki, Fordola is listed as a Garlean citizen, while Yotsuyu is not.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...rlean_citizens

Zenos put her in charge and his reasons were far from 'I value you as a person.' He put her in charge because he wanted the effect that her hatred would have on the domans. And had no qualms with manhandling her when we were in Doma.

There's also the psychological element of having your country basically being handed to a former citizen. One that doesn't see you just as a second class citizen like the majority of the Garlean Empire would, but as a culture and people specifically needing to be made to HURT for everything she herself suffered.

Which means the Empire doesn't care about "Barbarians" and racial superiority anymore if they hand over command to a Barbarian. This contradicts Fordola's story. Either the Empire is practicing Realpolitik or it's ideologically driven, it usually can't be both. Especially since Doma and Ala Mhigo had the same leader.

[Gemina]

The problem is that nobody in the story was judging people at birth. In fact, Heavensward already covered this territory about generational sin, so as a result nobody changes from this story. Hien wasn't judging people by birth, Gosetsu wasn't judging people by birth and Yugiri was wary from way back in AAR that people might judge her from her birth because of her race. And the WoL already went through the Dragonsong War. Nobody learned anything from Yotsuyu's tale except Yotsuyu's backstory. No one had an arc and nobody learned from the moral "everyone is born innocent" because that was never in dispute. The only time I can think this comes up is during the Samurai class story, which is entirely a Kugane problem with no characters appearing in the MSQ.

Well, you're looking at things from both the viewer and the character's perspective. The reason why I brought up that everyone is born innocent and monsters are created is because you questioned the moral of the story, which applies to us, the viewer.

"When Ala Mhigo was under the command of Gaius van Baelsar, he appointed Fordola and other Ala Mhigans born from digitaries as honorary citizens of the empire by serving in the Garlean militant group known as the Cania Lupi."

While not technically a full citizen, Fordola was more of a citizen of the Empire then Yotsuyu whom was not even born under Imperial rule or even granted honorary citizenship. Even in the wiki, Fordola is listed as a Garlean citizen, while Yotsuyu is not.

None of this changes the fact that Fordola doesn't have a dot right in the middle of her forehead. I do understand where you are coming from, but Yotsuyu is eastern born and a bi product of Doma. While inserting an imperial to act as Viceroy would be ideal, strategically it would be a better choice to appoint domestic influence rather than foreign. I mean think about it: Fordola or some other outsider who knows absolutely nothing about eastern customs, laws, demographics, political influence, and corruption; or Yotsuyu who is already bringing powerful men to their knees?

[Enla]

Which means the Empire doesn't care about "Barbarians" and racial superiority anymore if they hand over command to a Barbarian. This contradicts Fordola's story. Either the Empire is practicing Realpolitik or it's ideologically driven, it usually can't be both. Especially since Doma and Ala Mhigo had the same leader.

To be fair, with what we learned in the recent story, they /never/ cared. The Empire is there to sow Chaos and further the Ascian's desire to merge all the shards. Mind the average citizen, noble or otherwise, does not know this and likely wouldn't care to question it either when a potentially contradicting order is sent out. Putting Yotsuyu in control of Doma provided the most turmoil the situation could have had, and kept pressure on the surrounding areas. Same with what happened with Fordola, which you could also see as the Empire trying to take advantage of potential cultural differences though that's a stretch even I will admit. At the very least, raising an entire generation of Ala Mhigan's and gaslighting them into thinking the only future they had was with the Empire definitely falls in line with trying to cause as much disruption as possible.

[Bright-Flower]

The problem is that nobody in the story was judging people at birth. In fact, Heavensward already covered this territory about generational sin, so as a result nobody changes from this story. Hien wasn't judging people by birth, Gosetsu wasn't judging people by birth and Yugiri was wary from way back in AAR that people might judge her from her birth because of her race. And the WoL already went through the Dragonsong War. Nobody learned anything from Yotsuyu's tale except Yotsuyu's backstory. No one had an arc and nobody learned from the moral "everyone is born innocent" because that was never in dispute. The only time I can think this comes up is during the Samurai class story, which is entirely a Kugane problem with no characters appearing in the MSQ.



"When Ala Mhigo was under the command of Gaius van Baelsar, he appointed Fordola and other Ala Mhigans born from digitaries as honorary citizens of the empire by serving in the Garlean militant group known as the Cania Lupi." - https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Fordola_rem_Lupis

While not technically a full citizen, Fordola was more of a citizen of the Empire then Yotsuyu whom was not even born under Imperial rule or even granted honorary citizenship. Even in the wiki, Fordola is listed as a Garlean citizen, while Yotsuyu is not.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...rlean_citizens




Which means the Empire doesn't care about "Barbarians" and racial superiority anymore if they hand over command to a Barbarian. This contradicts Fordola's story. Either the Empire is practicing Realpolitik or it's ideologically driven, it usually can't be both. Especially since Doma and Ala Mhigo had the same leader.

There's no contradiction. Just because Zenos himself doesn't care doesn't mean the empire itself doesn't have a racism problem with its conquered people. I mean we see this in a sense with Fordola's scenes. Other imperial soldiers talk behind her back making comments that she's sleeping with Zenos or something to that effect when Zenos promotes her. Zenos himself is atypical for the empire, but is able to get away with what he does because he's the emperor's son and nobody's going to challenge him. And if someone did he could just kill them.

We see plenty of evidence that non garleans are treated as second class citizens at best in general. There being some exceptions to this like Yotsuyu don't disprove the rule, they're just exceptions. Outliers.

Zenos allowed both of these women to rise in the ranks because he saw them as useful to what he wanted, but we see clearly from the actions and words of other garleans that the empire DOES look down on and oppress its conquored people. Yotsuyu and Fordola's stories actually don't contradict one another. They were both able to rise as far as they did because of the same man with his personal twisted agenda.

[Edax]

Well, you're looking at things from both the viewer and the character's perspective. The reason why I brought up that everyone is born innocent and monsters are created is because you questioned the moral of the story, which applies to us, the viewer.


None of this changes the fact that Fordola doesn't have a dot right in the middle of her forehead. I do understand where you are coming from, but Yotsuyu is eastern born and a bi product of Doma. While inserting an imperial to act as Viceroy would be ideal, strategically it would be a better choice to appoint domestic influence rather than foreign. I mean think about it: Fordola or some other outsider who knows absolutely nothing about eastern customs, laws, demographics, political influence, and corruption; or Yotsuyu who is already bringing powerful men to their knees?

Given how the Empire has acted, they don't seem care about other customs, laws, demographics, political influences. As I said, Ala Mhigo was controlled by the same leader and both cultures were alien to the Empire. By showing the people of Ala Mhigo there was no hope under the Empire through citizenship, they assured that the Empire could not hold that country forever, which is extremely bad administration. By putting show the people of Doma that there was no hope under the Empire by appointing Yotsuyu as Viceroy, they assured that the Empire could not hold that country forever, which is extremely bad administration. If Yotsuyu is just trying to kill everyone anyway, then what's the point of customs and law?

To be fair, with what we learned in the recent story, they /never/ cared. The Empire is there to sow Chaos and further the Ascian's desire to merge all the shards. Mind the average citizen, noble or otherwise, does not know this and likely wouldn't care to question it either when a potentially contradicting order is sent out. Putting Yotsuyu in control of Doma provided the most turmoil the situation could have had, and kept pressure on the surrounding areas. Same with what happened with Fordola, which you could also see as the Empire trying to take advantage of potential cultural differences though that's a stretch even I will admit. At the very least, raising an entire generation of Ala Mhigan's and gaslighting them into thinking the only future they had was with the Empire definitely falls in line with trying to cause as much disruption as possible.

That's just another contradiction, if the Empire wants turmoil, that means it wants it's provinces to rebel. If all of the Empire's provinces have rebelled, effectively the Empire is destroyed. And the Empire clearly has a goal to accomplish that revolting provinces would get in the way of. The Empire and the Ascians want two different things, but even if we follow the logic of the Empire, Yotsuyu and Fordola stories are a contradictions when put next to each other. It only makes sense if you just say the Empire is evil, or the evil Ascians wanted to do evil, which is not terribly good writing and strips dimensions away from both female characters. You can't get people to fall in line by gaslighting them into thinking there is no future with the Empire with the racial discrimination.

[Jaywalker]

That's just another contradiction, if the Empire wants turmoil, that means it wants it's provinces to rebel. If all of the Empire's provinces have rebelled, effectively the Empire is destroyed.

In fairness I think we can safely say Zenos is responsible here lol.

I have some analysis on him and how I think he processes stuff, but the short version is I think he's gone through life without empathy and can only feel anything when he's in a fight he could lose. Life-threatening, interpersonal challenges (so combat) are basically the only thing that excites him. So he is technically mentally impaired, and it seems like the Garlean Empire works in a kind of absolute monarchy MO in the sense that you cannot question anything royalty says or does in any capacity.

So basically Varis didn't discipline his kid. Consequence was Zenos subjugating Ala Mhigo and Doma in a totally selfish quest to create an exciting opponent so he could feel something. Wouldn't surprise me if Varis not acting to control Zenos was because of Ascian interference, but basically I think it would be fair to say the poor occupation strategy was because Garlemald's best interests aren't at heart for its leadership.

Also (to keep things on topic) my impression was even Zenos thought Yotsuyuu went too far. I don't think for a moment it was from moral condemnation, but she is motivated by passion and bottomless thirst for revenge that Zenos is incapable of understanding. He just saw that instead of infuriating and inspiring the people to rise up with more force than ever, she broke the nation. He didn't want them to give up all hope because then he doesn't get his fight.