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  1. #21
    Player
    SannaR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,320
    Character
    Sanna Rosewood
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Enla View Post
    Then why is she in charge of the Resistance? It literally comes down to who her father was in the text, which smacked as a 'we wrote ourselves into a corner' move when it happens, but in practice they skipped literal chunks of development that would have made her worthy of that role. Why would she do it? Because she has been elevated to a position where pulling her own weight is required of her for people not to /die/. Understandable from a character standpoint or not it's BAD writing at best and makes no sense at worst. Take her out of her role as Resistance leader and what changes? Her giving an inspiring speech after we defeat Zenos? Because everything leading up to that could have been done just as well without her being elevated to a position she wasn't suited for. A fact that's doubly apparent when she forgets the Ifrit incident from ARR where the Flame soldiers that came with you literally had to be killed because they were tempered and nearly dooms Ala Mhigo proper in the interest of being a brainless idiot with the Ananta. She is /exactly/ in the same position as Minfillia in being given undo praise for doing basically nothing on screen. Except at least Minfillia does stuff when we're not there. Lyse is with us the entire time during Stormblood and does not have that luxury. And just like Minfillia no one calls her out on it.

    In actuality these are all the symptoms of bad writing and the writers forgetting their own lore. Yet that doesn't change the fact that Lyse basically does nothing, gets rewarded and treated like a hero, and has an unfulfilling arc that peeters out with a whimper rather than a roar.
    If she didn't invite the Qalyana then she'd be a hypocrite after having stated more than once she wanted to make an Ala Mhigo for everyone. That and everyone had done prep before hand. They didn't know that they had tempered a few guards as they can act normally and with Ga Bu there is still a question on how we treat tempered persons. Also not every primal tempers look at the Vanu, or the Ixal or the Kobolds. Heck there are non tempered Qalyana. Ifrit and Levi tempered are going to be violent because the primals who tempered them are violent. Don't forget that after the Broodmother caused trouble she's the one who had the bright idea to go get another echo user. She's learning while probably trying to reconnect with herself as she's had to pretend to be someone else for years.
    (3)

  2. #22
    Player Leanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Gridania.
    Posts
    270
    Character
    Leanna Crawford
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Minfilia could have been replaced by Tataru and the story wouldn't have changed at all. Minfilia in ARR isn't much more than just a piece of furniture in the base. And Lyse... the only time I saw her moving a finger was in the last dungeon where she has a chance to use Limit Break, besides that, the story could have been exactly the same without her.

    But this can be say for Y'shtola in SB as well. I prefer to think that the writers are unable to handle so many characters instead of being just bad, because the story is okay but the characters most of the time are just annoying or forgettable.
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player
    Nedkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,023
    Character
    Chloe Lehideux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    I hate it when my character cared about those 2 useless npcs.
    Why WoL even should care?
    (2)

  4. #24
    Player
    Alleo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    4,730
    Character
    Light Khah
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 91
    This post will contain some SB spoilers so please beware!

    I am fine if we have characters in the story that are not fighters but at least give us something else with them. Maybe I would have started to like Minfilia a bit if she was not just there...we are told how important she was with diplomacy but barely feel it when she is gone. We also never truly see her doing it. So why not have some quest involved around her doing that business and we could have gone with her to protect her? That way we could have seen what she was doing and get to know her better. Or they could have gone a whole different way and show us that after her capture she does start to train a bit because she does not want to be used as such a bait anymore. It would not mean that she would get all that powerful but at least you get the feeling like the character developed a bit.

    Lyse for me is even worse than Minfilia. Not because she is completely useless but because I found the change to be unnecessary. For me it felt like they did the switch because they needed another personality for her but did not feel like developing her for that. So instead we suddenly get the reveal that she is Lyse and not Yda which falls flat because we as a character never met the true Yda and the rest of the characters already knew it anyway and dont care..yet Lyse for me felt worse in her character..Yda was great because she was her and together with Papalymo they gave us a bit of humor. Now we suddenly have her as someone completely else, somehow important even though she never cared that much about Ala Mhigo and only went back to it now. But of course she is suddenly one of the most important ones and gets the biggest role just because she is someones daughter. I feel a bit bad for character like Mnago that were there the whole time but never got their big chance to shine or to be rewarded because of her.

    In the end both characters have the problem that we are told that they are x, that we are told how important they are, that we are told how much they have changed...yet we dont see it for ourselves. I still got the same feeling I had for Lyse at the end of the journey that I had of her from the start.

    (And yeah both are kinda used a bit for sexiness...Minfilia wearing such an outfit even though she is meeting with the heads of different countries...and Lyse suddenly changing to that dress while we had a big battle to fight for..I know it was done as some kind of motivation but it still felt a bit much)
    (4)
    Last edited by Alleo; 02-25-2019 at 01:15 AM.

  5. #25
    Player
    Daralii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    3,091
    Character
    Endris Caemwynn
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedkel View Post
    I hate it when my character cared about those 2 useless npcs.
    Why WoL even should care?
    Because they're the WoL's friends and mentors?
    (2)

  6. #26
    Player
    Vahlnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Tent In the Middle of Nowhere
    Posts
    9,647
    Character
    Elan Centauri
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    Because they're the WoL's friends and mentors?
    Pretty sure they stopped being our mentors on day 1. Not once did I ever really see them as mentors. Friends? Probably to my character. I've never really become attached to any of the Scions or most other characters, though I have liked some more than others. Thancred has my respect though for picking up a Gunblade soon. Gosetsu is probably the only one I like and it's because he actually possesses a personality. He is also not a Scion. Just about every other character feels bland. Not every other character but most, at least imo.
    (2)
    Last edited by Vahlnir; 02-25-2019 at 01:52 AM.

  7. #27
    Player
    SannaR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,320
    Character
    Sanna Rosewood
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    It's hard to really care about a place that you might not remember much if you had to flee with your sister when you're five after the rebellion against the mad king failed with how their father played apart in it. After we remeet up with her she shows how torn she is in going back to her duties as a scion vs staying with the resistance. For all we know she could have been as torn but not had a chance to act on some of those feelings before then.

    One could say that Raubahn over time started to careless about their homeland heck Illberd even accuses him of it. When we go to Ala Gannha you can see the confusion from her not understanding why no one wants to join the resistance and why a guy who's her age doesn't like her. He tells her it's because she left and doesn't understand the situation those who stayed have to deal with. Not that her staying would have been an option as Theodric was super crazy and killing just about anyone especially anyone related to those who tried to overthrow him.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,070
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Enla View Post
    A climax which is further undercut by them giving key moments that should have added to Lyse's story to Raubahn and Pippin, two essentially bit parts compared to the 'main character' of the expansion.
    Conversely, I feel like this was always meant to be Raubahn's story, and Lyse got a lot of the glory instead.

    Not to say that Lyse shouldn't/couldn't have been important as well, but we've always known Raubahn is from Ala Mhigo, and it's been a long-established plot point - certainly since post-ARR and his interactions with Ilberd during that time.

    Yda/Lyse seems to start talking passionately about "her homeland" quite late in the lead-up to Stormblood - we never got much sign that it was important to her before that. It makes it feel forced, or a recently introduced idea for the plot, instead of something that's been part of her character all along.



    Quote Originally Posted by purgatori View Post
    Um, new character?? Lyse is the development of the person whose name we thought was Yda---not a 'new character.'
    Echoing some other people here - I found it very hard to think of Lyse as Yda. They just don't seem like the same person to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Enla View Post
    A fact that's doubly apparent when she forgets the Ifrit incident from ARR where the Flame soldiers that came with you literally had to be killed because they were tempered and nearly dooms Ala Mhigo proper in the interest of being a brainless idiot with the Ananta.
    This is a situation for which Lyse gets a lot of direct blame from fans, but I don't think that's fair. The situation with the Anata was different to the mindless Ifrit-worshipping 'zombies' that we saw in ARR. They seemed lucid, and could be talked and apparently reasoned with - apparently enough that some could go undetected within the Resistance! - and obviously the Alliance doesn't want to be simply murdering all these people if there might be hope that they can recover from being tempered.

    In any case, it wasn't simply Lyse making this decision on her own. Other people were on board with it, and approved it.

    From the quotes I can get on Garland Tools (which doesn't include voiced cutscenes) - under a cut for length:

    LYSE
    I want to build a country where everyone, regardless of race or origin, can live side by side in peace. But maybe the time isn't right. Maybe people just aren't ready...
    But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. The representatives will be here soon, and I'll be damned if I'm going to give up before I've even begun.

    ARENVALD
    Who are these representatives exactly?

    LYSE
    Oh, village elders, refugee leaders and the like. It wouldn't be right for us to dictate the nation's future on our own, so we've planned a summit of sorts.
    We've even invited the Ananta and the Qiqirn to participate.
    ARENVALD
    We may have a problem, sir.
    A group of Ananta has arrived at the main gates. And I don't mean the Vira. These are Qalyana─the ones that summoned the primal.
    They're insisting they be allowed to attend the council. Lyse is trying to reason with them, but she may need help...

    PIPIN
    Hmm... An invitation was extended to all of the native beast tribes...but we assumed the Qalyana would refuse it out of hand.

    RAUBAHN
    We had best go and see for ourselves. Pipin, take command of our forces and be ready for battle.
    Forename─you've dealt with these Qalyana before. I'd have you at my side.

    LYSE
    Forename! Raubahn! Gods, it's good to see you...

    QALYANA PATRIARCH
    Ah! The ssslayer has come.
    We have not forgotten how you sssinned againssst the Lady of Blisss...but we did not come here to shed blood.
    You claim to ssseek harmony with all who call Gyr Abania home. If thisss is truly your wish, you will welcome usss as envoys of the Ananta!

    LYSE
    It is our wish, and you are welcome. But we cannot condone the summoning of primals.
    If you want to enter the palace, I must ask that you first surrender any crystal jewelry. You have my word that it will all be returned to you when the meeting is over.

    QALYANA PATRIARCH
    ...We will do as you asssk─but you will not have our weapons. We are not ssso foolish as to place ourssselves entirely at the mercy of our tormentors...

    RESISTANCE WARRIOR
    I reckon that's the closest we're going to get to a compromise. And we will have people standing guard...

    RAUBAHN
    Aye, let them keep their swords.

    QALYANA PATRIARCH
    Then we have an agreement. Lead the way to your meeting chamber.

    RAUBAHN
    Why do I have the feeling we've welcomed a viper into our midst...?


    There may have been more in spoken dialogue, but overall the thing is that it's not just Lyse. The decision has already been made to let the Qalyana live, even those who have been tempered. So it's a politically awkward situation that they're there in the first place - to not invite them would go against the ideals they are trying to present in this 'new', inclusive nation, and to refuse them entry after inviting them would probably be even worse.

    Lyse took precautions to prevent them from being able to conduct a summoning, and Raubahn (with more experience and long-term authority) agrees to their presence as well - and is even the one who permits them to keep their weapons. Nobody forsaw that the Qalyana had planned ahead for this scheme rather than simply turning up to the meeting.
    (2)
    Last edited by Iscah; 02-25-2019 at 02:05 AM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Camiie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    214
    Character
    Camille Blythe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    The whole thing about Yda and Lyse just seemed like an utterly pointless twist that was there simply for the sake of having one. Would anything really have played out worse story wise had the Yda we'd known simply been the original?

    She'd still have been an Ala Mhigan wanting to free her homeland. She'd still been devastated by Papalymo's sacrifice and horrified by the actions of The Griffin. She'd still have lost her family to the Garleans. The dead sister would still have been the sister we'd never known. She could still have been besties with M'Naago. Her place within the Scions in relation to the other members and the WoL wouldn't have been any different. She'd still have been the airheaded girl who'd been Papalymo's tag along having to grow into something more.

    Maybe I'm missing something?
    (5)

  10. #30
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,070
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Roda View Post
    Kinda hard to classify them as "useless blondes" since every prominent scion is blonde.
    There's an odd overbalance of blond- or silver-haired characters in the game. The Scions, the Ironworks team, all three NPC members of our traveling party in Heavensward...
    (3)

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