New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

[KaivaC]

See someone defending parsers called me out for assuming the mindset of those who created the parser, but now the mindset of other players is being assumed. You assume if someone's numbers are bad then they have ill intent and are just trying to leech. You've labeled them all "baddies." In fact, you're making a really fantastic argument AGAINST parsers.

How is it bad, though, if PF creators make a party with the expectation that the people joining are of at least average quality? How is that an argument against parsers?

[Beckett]

SE should just add official addons support and get it over with.

That is one thing they will never do, since it's unfair to the PS4 players who don't have access to those addons. Official addon support is impossible, whereas an official in-game parser is merely incredibly unlikely.

[KGN]

official in-game parser is merely incredibly unlikely.

It doesn't need parse all the party members, for self-analysis would be enough, only visible to each player their own dps.

[Kleeya]

You can still easily see who's doing good or bad just looking at the aggro bar in the default party interface, more or less.

Not with people using (or not using...) aggro reducing skills. Aggro bars are only telling you who has the aggro, and if someone is close to get it back. Not what kind of dps they have.

[Camiie]

How is it bad, though, if PF creators make a party with the expectation that the people joining are of at least average quality? How is that an argument against parsers?

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion. And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

[Vidu]

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion.
And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

...or, you know, maybe people just wish to run content with people who are at the same skill level than they are? Not wanting to carry people who need a lot more practise, but also not wanting to be carried by those who are a lot better?

Even without parsers this is already a thing in the game - and a good thing! - in the form of excluding people who havent cleared certain content yet from your PF-parties by putting a little check-mark on "has cleared this duty before", because people rightfully dont want to start at square one each time they recruit some randoms.

And you're nitpicking here - the quality of a person as a person might not be related to their parser in a videogame. Their quality as a member of your party thats trying to get some content done in said videogame is very much connected to their abilities within this videogame - one easy, convient way to measure this ability is through a parser, specially for those who are able to read them properly (aka being able to tell that someone died to unavoidable damage, didnt get raised for the next 3 minutes and has therefor low dps - stuff like that).

Someone can be the nicest person on earth, but if they cant perform their job I wouldnt want to take them into any Ex-primal or Savage content with me.

[Camiie]

So there's already a tool in game that lets you accomplish what you want as far as party recruitment. What's the problem again?

[Mikey_R]

If you run content with a DPS check, whether it be a phase or the whole fight, wouldn't it be nice to know who is the weaker link, the one or 2 people holding the whole party back from clearing, just from a lack of party DPS. Is it fair that 7-6 other people are having to try even harder to make up for that weak link so they can be effectively carried through the content when they didn't have the knowledge to perform their job.

You know when a tank and healer do their jobs right, people stay alive, the tank doesn't die, boss is properly positioned etc. If they are underperforming, it is easy to see. However, how are you meant to see when a DPS is underperforming, or which DPS is underperforming. Why should a DPS get, what I see as a free pass, to perform poorly, just because there is no easy way to (officially) check their performance. That EX trial or Savage raid needs a minimum performance from a DPS player in order to clear, just like it requires a minimum for tanks and healers. If you cannot tell who is underperforming, you will be beating your head against a brick wall or the party will disband. A better thing to do would be to call that DPS out for underperforming and replacing them, just the same as you would do for a tank/healer.

This sort of thing happens alot more than you might initially think. People going into content they have no right being in in the first place and remember, this is only talking about EX trials and Savage, where DPS performance is just as important as tank and healer performance.

On a different note, doing dungeons and 24 mans. Again, why do people seem to think it's OK to perform at the lowest standard. Doing a basic rotation is not hard and knowing the fundamentals of the job is key, yet, there are people who still cannot grasp that, or refuse to do it. Remember, I'm not talking about super min maxing here, this is the basics of a rotation, the fundamentals of a job, keeping GL3 for Monk, keeping up Enochian, Keeping that LotD buff going etc. Why should I have to carry someone who cannot be bothered to put in minimal effort, how is it fair and again I stress, I am talking basics of the job. You do not have to be optimal with oGCD usage to get the most damage, taking Monk as an example, keeping GL3, trying to hit those positionals, hitting that oGCD when it comes off, or even if it takes a few seconds to use, it doesn't matter, yet, I have seen monks not do positionals, I've sen monks not even attempting to get GL3, instead spamming bootshine and dragon kick with the occasional true strike (true story BTW). You can try and help but it's either met with hostility or them ignoring you. You can kick them, but they'll just go back into DF and find another party to 'carry' them through.

TL;DR The crux of all of this is, why is tank and healer performance scrutinised so much, but for some reason, DPS can have a free pass to be as bad as they want, regardless of content and everyone will come running to their defence when called out on it. If tanks and healers have this standard to hit, so should DPS.

[Vidu]

So there's already a tool in game that lets you accomplish what you want as far as party recruitment. What's the problem again?

That people lie.
That people get carried through content and then have the "duty cleared!"-flag checked even though they're not actually able to clear that duty (or rather: if everyone played on their level, the duty wouldnt be cleared).

I get your whole point about "an MMO is about playing with other people", but its also about playing a game an achieving things within this game, so I dont get where the argument "You have to play with everyone, its an MMO!" comes from. I enjoy playing with other people - I do not enjoy wiping to an encounter or to enrage because some of those people arent able to pull their weight.

[KaivaC]

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion. And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

Quit being dramatic - quality of a person? What?

What is this whole attitude that just because it's an MMO, people are required to allow you to join them? No, that is not the case. If a Savage run is being made, there's an expectation, especially in clear/weekly parties, that you are competent enough to do mechanics while outputting at least decent damage and fulfilling your role. Yes, parsers are a tool for self-improvement, but you can't deny that in some cases, it does provide an average of where a particular player's best stood and gives a very general expectation for a run, should somebody choose to look a player up. Seems like all the evidence you are using is anecdotal.

You don't have to be top tier to accomplish anything in the PF. Especially today when a lot of said top tier players are currently not even subscribed, so what are you talking about?