New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

[KaivaC]

See someone defending parsers called me out for assuming the mindset of those who created the parser, but now the mindset of other players is being assumed. You assume if someone's numbers are bad then they have ill intent and are just trying to leech. You've labeled them all "baddies." In fact, you're making a really fantastic argument AGAINST parsers.

How is it bad, though, if PF creators make a party with the expectation that the people joining are of at least average quality? How is that an argument against parsers?

[Camiie]

How is it bad, though, if PF creators make a party with the expectation that the people joining are of at least average quality? How is that an argument against parsers?

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion. And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

[Vidu]

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion.
And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

...or, you know, maybe people just wish to run content with people who are at the same skill level than they are? Not wanting to carry people who need a lot more practise, but also not wanting to be carried by those who are a lot better?

Even without parsers this is already a thing in the game - and a good thing! - in the form of excluding people who havent cleared certain content yet from your PF-parties by putting a little check-mark on "has cleared this duty before", because people rightfully dont want to start at square one each time they recruit some randoms.

And you're nitpicking here - the quality of a person as a person might not be related to their parser in a videogame. Their quality as a member of your party thats trying to get some content done in said videogame is very much connected to their abilities within this videogame - one easy, convient way to measure this ability is through a parser, specially for those who are able to read them properly (aka being able to tell that someone died to unavoidable damage, didnt get raised for the next 3 minutes and has therefor low dps - stuff like that).

Someone can be the nicest person on earth, but if they cant perform their job I wouldnt want to take them into any Ex-primal or Savage content with me.

[KaivaC]

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion. And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

Quit being dramatic - quality of a person? What?

What is this whole attitude that just because it's an MMO, people are required to allow you to join them? No, that is not the case. If a Savage run is being made, there's an expectation, especially in clear/weekly parties, that you are competent enough to do mechanics while outputting at least decent damage and fulfilling your role. Yes, parsers are a tool for self-improvement, but you can't deny that in some cases, it does provide an average of where a particular player's best stood and gives a very general expectation for a run, should somebody choose to look a player up. Seems like all the evidence you are using is anecdotal.

You don't have to be top tier to accomplish anything in the PF. Especially today when a lot of said top tier players are currently not even subscribed, so what are you talking about?

[AleXwern]

Now you're equating the quality of a person with the quality of their parses? Maybe you didn't mean that the way it sounded.

To answer your question though, the parser is clearly being used as an exclusionary tool rather than a tool for self-improvement. It's really defeating the purpose of playing an MMO in my opinion. And it doesn't seem like people are necessarily using it to only weed out the below average. It seems more like people are using it to weed out anyone who isn't top tier.

But you know to the other person's comments about baddies wanting to be carried I posit this: If one is only willing to ever run with who they deem to be the best of the best then perhaps it is they who wish to be carried? Just a thought.

Yes, I am going to use it to exclude people. If a grey/hidden SAM joins my weekly clear party, what should I do? I can clearly see he's underperforming or he's hiding something and there's risk he can single handedly stop entire group's progress (wouldn't be first nor last time). Not kick him because "it's MMO"? Even without parsers you'd just go in, wipe and then kick. It'll just save 10 minutes for everyone in reality.
Inb4 "help him perform better": it's a weekly clear and you are supposed to know your class and encounter by then. Go whack a dummy and read a guide.

Unless it's specifically logrun group, nobody expects to run with the absolute best. The truth is that people want to clear and be done with whatever they are doing as smoothly and fast as possible. Competent may not be perfect, not even close, but underperforming people are not even competent (-> gray and hidden people 99% of time. Blue already shows some promise in my eyes and someone I wouldn't kick right away). If I and 6 other people want to clear something, why should we tolerate someone who's clearly not up to the task? Why should we tolerate 1 person wasting 7 others' time?
Also what is that point about wanting to be carried? because I want to play with people with similar skill levels as myself means I want to be carried myself? What? I Just don't want to carry anyone, how is that hard to understand. They should do their job and I mine, not that I do their and mine.