Blue Mage DPS Versus Other Casters

[Ceallach]

It is moot.

And then there are the hypotheticals, assumptions, and incorrect-lazy-math that come in to try and level the ground in an attempt to force the comparison, which only end up messing the numbers even further.

And yet, here you are, posting large paragraphs about a job that doesn't matter in an effort to silence somebody whose experiments won't affect you.

I think you're just salty as all hell, and I fail to understand why you deserve any attention. I will do as I like. You are welcome to your opinion, but do not expect others to live by it.

I trust that will be the last we see of you. Good day.

[Phoenicia]

And yet, here you are, posting large paragraphs about a job that doesn't matter in an effort to silence somebody whose experiments won't affect you.

I think you're just salty as all hell, and I fail to understand why you deserve any attention. I will do as I like. You are welcome to your opinion, but do not expect others to live by it.

I trust that will be the last we see of you. Good day.

I am not silencing anyone. For one, what you said is typed and is out there to be seen.

What I was doing is clearing misconceptions of incorrect math and assumptions, used to compare something of irrelevance in an attempt to add relevance to it instead of addressing the real issue of a job being broken and a waste of resources that the company keeps stressing they don't have.

Math is not opinions.

Why would I be salty? It's not like you playing BLU will make me lose my raid/dungeon spot, or my orange/gold parses because your parse is so high? It's not like you can solo hunts so I can't get to them in time or have them reported in linkshells any more. It is not like YOU being BLU will prevent ME from playing it should I wish to.

But since opinions are brought up, Limited Content is very bad content. The word "limited" alone should make it so. Why would anyone want to be limited? This game does not need limited content. It needs good content that people ask for.

This is my opinion and if you feel like arguing it, go ahead.

This wasn't salt, if anything, it's people hating to admit where they are wrong. I pointed out where the math was wrong. And where the logic of comparing oranges to sour lemons is faulty.

So instead of assaulting my personality and worthiness of attention, you could provide your logic to where I am wrong and I might take a step back if you are convincing enough.

And for your last line, all I will say is "LOL".

[Kabooa]

And for your last line, all I will say is "LOL".

[Jonnycbad]

BLU was balanced solely on its solo performance in the open world ARR 2.0 zones, and Masked Carnival. No other balance considerations were made for party play other than making certain bosses immune to instant death.

[Ceallach]

I am not silencing anyone. For one, what you said is typed and is out there to be seen.

What I was doing is clearing misconceptions of incorrect math and assumptions, used to compare something of irrelevance in an attempt to add relevance to it instead of addressing the real issue of a job being broken and a waste of resources that the company keeps stressing they don't have.

Math is not opinions.

Why would I be salty? It's not like you playing BLU will make me lose my raid/dungeon spot, or my orange/gold parses because your parse is so high? It's not like you can solo hunts so I can't get to them in time or have them reported in linkshells any more. It is not like YOU being BLU will prevent ME from playing it should I wish to.

But since opinions are brought up, Limited Content is very bad content. The word "limited" alone should make it so. Why would anyone want to be limited? This game does not need limited content. It needs good content that people ask for.

This is my opinion and if you feel like arguing it, go ahead.

This wasn't salt, if anything, it's people hating to admit where they are wrong. I pointed out where the math was wrong. And where the logic of comparing oranges to sour lemons is faulty.

So instead of assaulting my personality and worthiness of attention, you could provide your logic to where I am wrong and I might take a step back if you are convincing enough.

And for your last line, all I will say is "LOL".

Well, first, none of my math was incorrect. To my knowledge, no one has the equations that show how Intelligence scales for blue mage versus how it scales for other jobs, and the fact blue mage's arms have no attributes on them at all would logically be enough to reasonably assume blue mage gets more power out of less Intelligence. Also, how do you define "relevant" here? Just because blue mage cannot participate in level 51+ content doesn't make it irrelevant. As long as there is curiosity, there is relevance.

No, math is not opinion. You stating that blue mage is "irrelevant content" is.

Perhaps you wanted blue mage to be more than what it is, but in order to do that, much of what it should be able to do would have to be removed. Or perhaps you just don't like me personally for some reason. Either way, you're not adding to the discussion, so you can go away.

"Limited content is very bad content." This is an opinion. And I happen to enjoy it. Do you have a problem with that? And I'm curious about how blue mage really stacks up. So what if I can't take this job into Alphascape V4.0 (Savage)? So what if other jobs aren't balanced around level 50 content? This entire thread was really just an experiment by me to sate my own curiosity, and you and your ridiculous attitude are not welcome in that endeavor. Blue mage gives me a reason to play the game that doesn't involve having to deal with other people. So does gardening. So does gathering. So does crafting. So do quests of all types. Sure, I needed help with learning blue magic spells, and I'm grateful for that help. Most of those players didn't have your sass. But ultimately, I now play blue mage once each week to get the bonus rewards from the Masked Carnivale, and considering I'm too busy with college to really play the game (plus I'm really burnt out on this game as a whole), I am actually very thankful for more "irrelevant" solo content. Whatever keeps people like you away from people like me is very, very welcome.

Now, I don't care what your opinions are, and you are (again) more than welcome to have them. But if you're going to keep on like this, you should actually contribute instead of being a "sour lemon" yourself.

[Phoenicia]

First of all, I did not mean to come off as the person with attitude or "sass". And I did not mean to undermine your effort of coming up with math. I actually meant to help you get closer to accurate numbers.

No, I do not not-like you. I don't know you outside of these forums. If anything I'm indifferent.

I did not come here discussing opinions either.

But regardless, for whatever offence I may have caused for you, I apologize. I hope you take what you read from here onward not as an attack on your person or efforts, but as means to reach more relevant understanding of where BLU stands.

Well, first, none of my math was incorrect.

Based on the above, the calculations in this thread have done the following incorrectly:

Scaling of UI/AF3 for BLM spells (done incorrectly or ignored). Ignoring TC and FS procs which are a HUGE portion of the lv50 DPS ratio.
Not using Garuda-Egi (the superior pet in 4.4) for SMN and taking the DoT snap shotting during contagion (also unloading festers into contgion) into account.
Assuming ver-shortspells to be 100% instead of 50% (basically the calculations should assume 50% Jolts get replaced by 25% of w/b Ver-shorts). RDM might get 1 or 2 melee combos in a minute. Calculating highest DPS potential should assume Displacement and Corpse-a-corpse being used on CD, not matched with melee combos.
All scaling on BLU unless it was done completely multiplicatively.

In general, mathing out potencies is inaccurate for many reasons I mentioned in the earlier post which you can refer to if you like.

Relevant numbers for you:

The only objective way to look at BLU is, in a 3:00 minute parse:
Without Primal Abilities at 130, you won't break 300 DPS.
With primal abilities, you should average ~550 DPS.
Both of the above cases abuse the ability to apply status to enemies (petrify, freeze, etc) until immunity.

I know parsers are frowned upon by the devs. But this case is one where parsers are helpful. If you don't use one, have someone who does parse for you, invite them to party and whack on a dummy with all the combos you like on BLU and you'll get numbers like above. You can also upload it to FFLogs and have the site present things in graphs and splits ability ratios and what not.

If you want some figures, MNKs used to do 600~650 in ARR, now they can't because they lost Touch of Death and Blood for Blood. BLMs used to ~600, now they can't because they lost Raging Strikes and some of their spell values changed. Potent Poisoning Potions were a big deal, now not anymore. List can go on and I won't.

Comparing a job "balanced" around the content made for it (namely the Carnivale) against jobs balanced around level 70 raids is NOT comparing apples to apples.

One other reason I think BLU comparisons don't serve much is 'role'. Blue is identified as a caster because it casts, but it isn't meant to play purely as one. It is kind of like comparing WAR's DPS to say NIN. They both slash, but that's where similarities end, one is a tank, the other is a DPS.

you should actually contribute instead of being a "sour lemon" yourself.

Excuse you? I'm the orange!

[Ceallach]

First of all, I did not mean to come off as the person with attitude or "sass". And I did not mean to undermine your effort of coming up with math. I actually meant to help you get closer to accurate numbers.

No, I do not not-like you. I don't know you outside of these forums. If anything I'm indifferent.

I did not come here discussing opinions either.

But regardless, for whatever offence I may have caused for you, I apologize. I hope you take what you read from here onward not as an attack on your person or efforts, but as means to reach more relevant understanding of where BLU stands.

I'm sorry, too. I have a bad habit of taking everything personally, however slight or not, negative or not. I was just so excited by the idea that I might finally be able to contribute something, and it got dashed to bits. With all the talk of how "irrelevant" blue mage is, I felt like I may as well delete my character and go back to playing single-player games because I was worthless as a human being.

In general, mathing out potencies is inaccurate for many reasons I mentioned in the earlier post which you can refer to if you like.

Relevant numbers for you:

I know parsers are frowned upon by the devs. But this case is one where parsers are helpful. If you don't use one, have someone who does parse for you, invite them to party and whack on a dummy with all the combos you like on BLU and you'll get numbers like above. You can also upload it to FFLogs and have the site present things in graphs and splits ability ratios and what not.

If you want some figures, MNKs used to do 600~650 in ARR, now they can't because they lost Touch of Death and Blood for Blood. BLMs used to ~600, now they can't because they lost Raging Strikes and some of their spell values changed. Potent Poisoning Potions were a big deal, now not anymore. List can go on and I won't.

Comparing a job "balanced" around the content made for it (namely the Carnivale) against jobs balanced around level 70 raids is NOT comparing apples to apples.

One other reason I think BLU comparisons don't serve much is 'role'. Blue is identified as a caster because it casts, but it isn't meant to play purely as one. It is kind of like comparing WAR's DPS to say NIN. They both slash, but that's where similarities end, one is a tank, the other is a DPS.

Okay, so what are we doing here? If blue mage is "irrelevant," isn't it a total waste of time and effort to figure out things like efficient rotations and potential DPS?

Excuse you? I'm the orange!

Are you sure? Maybe I should ask that one YouTuber if you're a friend of the Lemon Queen...

[Kabooa]

That's kind of the problem. Over the duration of a fight, Blue Mage dips even with condition susceptible enemies. The difference between combo use and glower spam is probably like 5% over a duration. I have gotten similar results as Phoenicia with just glower spam set ups.

But you can't use those rotations against most bosses, and the ones you can cheese with missile, death, and tailscrew are also kind of limited. Basically all the bosses that matter.

Blue Mage could have been its own self contained party of Blue Mages where "Tank" mage sets up the burst opportunities for the DPS mages, but that doesn't really happen. If you can't missile cheese the boss, then you're just spamming glower until it's in self destruct range.

If you're having fun, awesome. I had fun with it too, while it lasted. I sincerely hope you continue to have fun with it. I don't think many of us on this side of the fence would think otherwise, we just wish it stayed fun for us too.

[Phoenicia]

Okay, so what are we doing here? If blue mage is "irrelevant," isn't it a total waste of time and effort to figure out things like efficient rotations and potential DPS?

Are you sure? Maybe I should ask that one YouTuber if you're a friend of the Lemon Queen...

What are you doing here? I don't know. If you enjoy playing BLU, play it. It is not a waste of time or effort to have fun.

For "efficient DPS" or whatever you fancy, that is fine, do it. Make sure you get the correct match so you get accurate results. But after that, we have nothing to compare it to. We have no other jobs "limited" to 50. BLU doesn't play in parties so it can't compete with other party based roles, etc. You catch my drift?

I don't know any lemon queens. But I like lemon in my tea... Sometimes.

[Ceallach]

So, just in case she forgot to put it here, Tsundere changed up her opener.

If you want to get to know the Lemon Queen or the Melon Queen, this is the place to go.