New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

[Insertcoins]

Stone Sea Sky is a poor substitute. It's only real use is the resetting of cds for practicing openers. Most people killing the dummy just plug their %hp or time remaining into an external site to get a flat number anyway.

Be that as it may as yes it is limiting. It does help on a basic level. If you're not killing the dummy then your opener and rotation arent good enough for it. Therefore your dps is not up to par. You can and do get that from it. Yes you wont get details but if you're failing you know you're failing. So in that respect it working as intended.

[Lauront]

They're pretty indispensable tools for fine-tuning performance for high end content, and also for early clears of some content with dps checks. Yes, people can abuse them - and that ought to be the focus. I really don't see the issue with their use as long as they're not used as a hammer to bludgeon other players.

[Ilan]

Something about an official SE streamer getting harassed live for poor performance? Somebody else will probably reply with more details. I wasn't active when said event happened but I did hear of it, which speaks of it's impact on the parser stance of both SE and the community.

So basically a streamer got harrassed on a streaming plattform? Nothing new and honestly no reason to not allow parsers. Most streamers get targeted BECAUSE they are streaming and because some people feel cool if they can troll around in live streams.

[Penthea]

So basically a streamer got harrassed on a streaming plattform? Nothing new and honestly no reason to not allow parsers. Most streamers get targeted BECAUSE they are streaming and because some people feel cool if they can troll around in live streams.

Streaming is a form of publicity and what happened in that incident isn't good publicity at all no matter what way you look at it. That was not a shining moment for the FFXIV community. Far from it. No one wants their game to become known as a place where harassment incidents are given a public platform. Even Riot clamped down on bad behaviour in LoL because the bad reputation of the playerbase was not something they wanted.

And that streaming incident happened in Japan. A place where manners, humble demeanour and not shaking the boat is very important, even online. It would have been ten times worse in the west where people are far more vocal about the performance quality of others.

[AmemeAmeklin]

So basically a streamer got harrassed on a streaming plattform? Nothing new and honestly no reason to not allow parsers. Most streamers get targeted BECAUSE they are streaming and because some people feel cool if they can troll around in live streams.

After reading what happened I can safely say that this official SE streamer was not only harassed about parses and had the group trolling by spinning the boss around to set her up to fail so they could make fun of her (typical junk to us), she was evidently sexually harassed afterwards. So basically it was one of the worst cases of what can happen with parses being an excuse. JP players are generally very polite and can work together better than us troglodytes over in NA who are going through things like frequent mass shootings and political unrest, so just imagine what we'd do to each other if we had even the slightest excuse.

As a culture we will bully one another and tell our victims to stop being so sensitive, encourage each other to kill ourselves, stalk each other, threaten each other, troll, grief, etc, for 'fun'. Are we acting out due to what's going on in our country right now? Are we just socialized to treat each other like trash? Who knows. But the fact that you seem to dismiss something like 'being harassed on a streaming platform' as nothing just shows how desensitized we are to this behavior.

This kind of nasty socializing has been part of our gaming culture for quite some time (cough WoW cough), but it's clear SE doesn't want that kind of thing to happen. Everyone should have a chance to enjoy the game. You should not have to deal with people harassing you, stalking you, bullying you, when you're just trying to have fun.

[Zweiss]

Since quite a lot of folks in this thread don’t know/are asking about the Koike incident, here you go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ingame_parser/

[Camiie]

Then I don't see how it's an issue with parsers per se if you don't raid or do high endgame content you're not even actively hounded for your DPS or performance since the only reason you'd know is if you went to FFlogs, typed in your name, and saw you were parsed. It doesn't even mean anything in low end content/leveling what people complain about is using your actual abilities in a group setting no one cares that you were grey in an expert, no one cares that you're 100% in an expert people just gauge it because they like to see where they stand I've never seen it as a shaming tool.

See that's the thing. You don't have to understand my apprehension, and I really have nothing to justify to you or anyone else. To me, it's those not following the official TOS that need to justify to the rest of us why others should be parsed without consent and have to opt out if we don't like it. Whether it causes me any additional annoyance, harm, etc is really beside the point.

Not to mention you can just hide yourself and no one will even know you exist or do any kind of battle content if you prefer that, I don't get how it's an intrusion when you don't even know if you're being parsed even if you turned it off of your profile. Besides in dungeons and such you can tell who's not pulling their weight very easily (DPS that don't AoE, Healers that spam Cure II and don't DPS, tanks that pull the world and use 0 CDs and 1-2-3 bosses) the games very team oriented just like any other MMO.

Sure, and I have hidden it. Why should I have had to though? Now cue people being suspicious and claiming I have something to hide, as though having something to hide is even an inherently bad thing. I have blinds on my windows too. And if you can pinpoint most problems by just eyeballing them then what's the need of a parser anyway?

[Ilan]

Streaming is a form of publicity and what happened in that incident isn't good publicity at all no matter what way you look at it. That was not a shining moment for the FFXIV community. Far from it. No one wants their game to become known as a place where harassment incidents are given a public platform. Even Riot clamped down on bad behaviour in LoL because the bad reputation of the playerbase was not something they wanted.

And that streaming incident happened in Japan. A place where manners, humble demeanour and not shaking the boat is very important, even online. It would have been ten times worse in the west where people are far more vocal about the performance quality of others.

It is never a shining moment for any community when anyone gets harrassed and i never said its ok but to take this as a excuse for not allowing parsers would be unreasonable. I know that riot is officially trying to clamp that down but they are still only scratching at the tip of the iceberg and they are not really doing that much when it comes to behaviour in their game, but lets stop here because we are not talking about LoL.

Japanese people are more polite in the open but you can bet that they are as nasty as everyone else when they talk behind someones back.

After reading what happened I can safely say that this official SE streamer was not only harassed about parses and had the group trolling by spinning the boss around to set her up to fail so they could make fun of her (typical junk to us), she was evidently sexually harassed afterwards. So basically it was one of the worst cases of what can happen with parses being an excuse. JP players are generally very polite and can work together better than us troglodytes over in NA who are going through things like frequent mass shootings and political unrest, so just imagine what we'd do to each other if we had even the slightest excuse.

As a culture we will bully one another and tell our victims to stop being so sensitive, encourage each other to kill ourselves, stalk each other, threaten each other, troll, grief, etc, for 'fun'. Are we acting out due to what's going on in our country right now? Are we just socialized to treat each other like trash? Who knows. But the fact that you seem to dismiss something like 'being harassed on a streaming platform' as nothing just shows how desensitized we are to this behavior.

This kind of nasty socializing has been part of our gaming culture for quite some time (cough WoW cough), but it's clear SE doesn't want that kind of thing to happen. Everyone should have a chance to enjoy the game. You should not have to deal with people harassing you, stalking you, bullying you, when you're just trying to have fun.

Your first paragraph sounds like the typical behaviour of the gaming community torwards female gamers which is a pretty idiotic behaviour.

I know you all think that japanese people are always polite and stuff but you saw that they are not and if they are they are most likely only polite when they talk to you directly. You won't know what they are talking behind someones back but you can get a good guess after what happened to this streamer.

But both quoted posts just showed that it is what i wrote: a streamer got harrassed while streaming because some people are idiots. The fact that the streamer is a female and that it was the oh so polite japanese com doesn't really change a thing. Some people are dicks not matter where they live, no matter of their gender and no matter what they play.

[JackHatchet]

Man, this topic is depressing for free will.

The idea that people are putting out is that parsers are bad, because people can't control themselves, and will become bullies. Inciting that parsers will cause the playerbase to be unhinged. Why do we have to assume that players are toxic and prohibit tools, because the assumption is that people are by default toxic.

We just got these new ToS rules that will punish offenders. Can't we play by 'innocent until proven guilty?"

I don't even know if I like the idea that the community would rather proactively restrict people on the off-chance they'd be toxic just to preserve some idealistic utopia. What are they going to do next? Remove our ability to type in PvP? I'd rather a gaming company treat me like a person with personal responsibility and not like a dog that needs to be muzzled, because they're distrustful of us out the gate. That's insulting to be honest.

[Awful]

See that's the thing. You don't have to understand my apprehension, and I really have nothing to justify to you or anyone else. To me, it's those not following the official TOS that need to justify to the rest of us why others should be parsed without consent and have to opt out if we don't like it. Whether it causes me any additional annoyance, harm, etc is really beside the point.

You're right I don't because I never will have to justify myself for optimizing myself in how I want to play the game and you can go ahead and play how you want to, people are going to abuse it somehow just like how people abuse ignorance is bliss by under preforming in any kind of content. There's always people breaking the TOS just because a parse that is a 3rd party tool that helps the game better for people who want to use it doesn't mean it's inherently bad, should Shaders also be shown as an advantage for people who use it as well?

Sure, and I have hidden it. Why should I have had to though? Now cue people being suspicious and claiming I have something to hide, as though having something to hide is even an inherently bad thing. I have blinds on my windows too. And if you can pinpoint most problems by just eyeballing them then what's the need of a parser anyway?

No one said anything about you being suspicious nor did I it's honestly on you if you want to hide it or not no ones gonna send you spam mail or any kind of harassment because you did 0 DPS as a healer in a story mode since you don't do any hard content. That's not the point that you can eyeball it and see unless you yourself are not paying attention at all it's common sense you see a SMN not use any DoTs and realize "wow this guys not using Bane and we're in the Burn!" that's not on the parsers fault that's on the person.

If you've had 0 bad interactions with parsing and no one has bugged you about it then why be against the idea of an actual parser where you can control and not have it posted online for all to see if you're that worried that way it's regulated to yourself and no one else. It's either you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, yeah you don't have to justify yourself but you don't speak for the rest of the people who want custom UIs, raid addons, PvP addons, etc should they also be thrown away at the door?