New ToS gives hope for official DPS meters?

[linay]

like one provided by SE itself? As that'll be the only way I think. Anything having to do with mods are a no go by sony tho. Also cause of the Nico thing SE wouldn't do it sadly. As a PS4 player I like knowing my numbers on my Sam and monk. :c

Yes, and they could make it so it only parses yourself and also they could add a warning when you start the parse that sharing your parse might bring in criticism as well as warning against criticizing others in a mean/belittling manner so people would be informed if they choose to use it and then choose to share it.

[Awful]

I'd never been harassed over it, but I felt very uncomfortable with it. Ultimately I decided to opt out just like I've opted out of telemarketing and junk mail. It's an intrusion I'd prefer to do without. What's so wrong with that?

Then I don't see how it's an issue with parsers per se if you don't raid or do high endgame content you're not even actively hounded for your DPS or performance since the only reason you'd know is if you went to FFlogs, typed in your name, and saw you were parsed. It doesn't even mean anything in low end content/leveling what people complain about is using your actual abilities in a group setting no one cares that you were grey in an expert, no one cares that you're 100% in an expert people just gauge it because they like to see where they stand I've never seen it as a shaming tool.

Not to mention you can just hide yourself and no one will even know you exist or do any kind of battle content if you prefer that, I don't get how it's an intrusion when you don't even know if you're being parsed even if you turned it off of your profile. Besides in dungeons and such you can tell who's not pulling their weight very easily (DPS that don't AoE, Healers that spam Cure II and don't DPS, tanks that pull the world and use 0 CDs and 1-2-3 bosses) the games very team oriented just like any other MMO.

[Penthea]

A lot of games have leader-boards. Mainstream games like Super Mario Odyssey have online leader-boards for mini games.

The difference is many leader boards are created by the game company. So by playing those games you are agreeing to leader board use. This isn't the case with FFLogs or a parser in FF because these are third party tools and SE have publicly stated they are against the TOS. By playing FFXIV you're actually agreeing to not use third party tools, therefore you're also not agreeing to have your combat number results become public information.

I get that combat numbers are hardly private information in the grand scheme of things but the point I'm making is there is a big difference between an official leader board, and a community generated one whose use the devs are famously against.

So while I personally don't care if I'm in FFLogs, I can understand some people who feel like "wait, this isn't even supported by the devs in any manner. I didn't sign up for this and the devs don't even want us to either. I thought I could escape parser abuse in this game."

[JackHatchet]

I meant specifically in-game parsers provided by Square-Enix. That way it's fair for all clients.

I think that as long as fights have enrage timers being an important mechanic check. That it's important for players to actually measure themselves against the enrage timer.

While it's true that having rules doesn't always prevent bad behavior. The stricter enforcement of the ToS and rules 'has to have some effect' on the community, or else Square-Enix would shrug and say "well, it don't matter, why are we paying someone to write all this down?"

The fact that Square-Enix went out of their way to shore up the ToS, and put in a lot of extra effort to write it out for the players. And additional effort on the GM's behalfs to screen through all the new reports that are sure to trickle in--means that Square-Enix believes that the rules will be effective in curbing a problem. And if there's no toxicity problem--then parsers could exist without contention.

Either way, Square-Enix put in a lot of money and effort to tighten the ToS. There has to be a reason for it. I just think it'd be cool if official parsers was part of that reason.

---

Personally, I'm all for parsers as long as fights have enrage checks. If they removed enrage checks then I wouldn't care.

[Endeleon]

People who "support parse" don't say that this never happen.
As long as humans exists, you'll have people to make good or bad things with certain tools.
That's just all.

In saying "support parsers" I am not saying every person who uses them, but the people who make threads asking for them officially, claiming they cause no issues in the community. Speak no evil is working well for the most part. However, if such a tool was to be put into the hands of everyone, an officially supported non the less, it would encourage such toxic and disgusting behavior that was displayed in the koike incident.

[spf1200]

Stone, sky, sea is the best we are getting and it works fine. The only reason people don't like it is because it requires you to put a bit of thought into the results instead of telling flat numbers.

[JackHatchet]

In saying "support parsers" I am not saying every person who uses them, but the people who make threads asking for them officially, claiming they cause no issues in the community. Speak no evil is working well for the most part. However, if such a tool was to be put into the hands of everyone, an officially supported non the less, it would encourage such toxic and disgusting behavior that was displayed in the koike incident.

Yeah, but the ToS got tighter. That means even if people were toxic--they'd only be toxic once. Then they'd get banned and the only people left would be the ones who aren't toxic. And if there's no toxic people--then parsers should be accepted.

[Penthea]

Yeah, but the ToS got tighter. That means even if people were toxic--they'd only be toxic once. Then they'd get banned and the only people left would be the ones who aren't toxic. And if there's no toxic people--then parsers should be accepted.

You're forgetting that enforcing the ToS often requires people to make reports, especially in cases of bad behaviour. A lot of people don't report players because they don't know how, don't know they can, are too lazy, or they feel so demoralised that they think it is pointless. The final one is sadly more common than you would think.

The ToS being tighter isn't enough. SE rely heavily on GM tickets to find problem players. The ticket and report systems would need to be far more streamlined to encourage more reports. Reporting players for RMT is easy and quick. We would need similar to report other types of bad behaviour and to have players actively using it a lot, before anyone can even begin to argue that a tighter ToS will have a noticeable effect on the amount of toxic players in the game.

[splinter1545]

No one cares, and yet people are parsing and posting the results anyway.

I highly doubt they are doing it out of malice. You can also set triggers while parsing, so people will run them outside of Savage to hear party buffs and act accordingly, so it's helpful from an optimization standpoint regardless of the content. Either way, it's a 24 man, so no one really cares about those parses other than the person who uploaded it manually (assuming it wasn't a live log). You can also hide your parses as well and keep them private.

[Tlachtga]

Stone, sky, sea is the best we are getting and it works fine. The only reason people don't like it is because it requires you to put a bit of thought into the results instead of telling flat numbers.

Stone Sea Sky is a poor substitute. It's only real use is the resetting of cds for practicing openers. Most people killing the dummy just plug their %hp or time remaining into an external site to get a flat number anyway.