Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[HyoMinPark]

It isn’t a stalemate.

Except under these new rules, they carry the assuption that both parties can claim the other was "compelling a playstyle onto them". People seem to be hung on the example itself without considering that, should both players choose to report, there's no easy way to determine who "wins" under these new "rules". Both players could be considered "right". So who do you punish? That's a stalemate.
Though, clearly, people do like to provide these extraneous details that were never listed, such as "repeated wipes" or "slow DPS" or "tank throwing a tantrum" without considering the inverse as well (no wipes, good DPS, healer throwing a tantrum).

[Nedkel]

I honestly regret pre-ordering shadowbringers. It's the first time I decided to pre-order anything and I pay this since 1.0

I told you all not to.

SE is not a "good willed" company, they could do many many stupid things to this game or completely destroy it even before they will release the expansion, just like blizzard did.
Now since, SE decided to destroy any aspect of social interactions between players, i am just waiting for more stuff of this calibre that will hurt the game even more.

[PharisHanasaki]

FFXIV team updating rules so people don't exploit them. Please are now exploting the new rules by reporting everyone for 'emotional distress' xD Good job NA.

Have you guys even looked up the definition of emotional distress? Does a tank making big pulls keeps you up at night? Or do you turn to alcohol or drugs because a healer is not dpsing in savage? You should probably stop playing and go to a doctor if you do. No GM can help you with that.

[NanaWiloh]

We don't see people as they are. We see people as we are. So if someone doubts GMs' discernment, guess why that is. The new ToS looks to me like giving GMs teeth to penalize toxic people, like a ban won't be over some reason they made up but backed by written policy. That's about it really, so GMs can do their jobs without being scared of doing their jobs. They have to justify penalizing paying customers. Think of this issue from all angles and relax. GMs aren't out to get us.

No their not out to get us and the words compel and Unilateral basically mean the same thing to force or urge. Giving advice or critizing someones game play is not forcing them too change their playstyle, going off the deep end and screaming at them cause they wont play the way you want well..thats compelling a playstyle. Telling someone they are not allowed to have opinon is unilateral rejection, disagreeing with someone elses opinion or having an opinion of your own is not. Most of the community is completely unaware of the changes and will go about there business as always. If your a player who is a jerk, cant hold their tongue or goes around forcing their opinions and playstyles on others well...your going to find yourself getting nailed more often now.

[Nedkel]

FFXIV team updating rules so people don't exploit them. Please are now exploting the new rules by reporting everyone for 'emotional distress' xD Good job NA.

Have you guys even looked up the definition of emotional distress? Does a tank making big pulls keeps you up at night? Or do you turn to alcohol or drugs because a healer is not dpsing in savage? You should probably stop playing and go to a doctor if you do. No GM can help you with that.

Basically, according to these rules you would be banned for the post like this, because you are assuming others mental health issues which is super offensive you know.

[PharisHanasaki]

Basically, according to these rules you would be banned for the post like this, because you are assuming others mental health issues which is super offensive you know.

When did I? :O Or are you asuming I did?

[Melichoir]

It isn’t a stalemate. If neither side can compromise and both sides remain polite, then it falls to which player’s gameplay is disrupting the run. If it’s causing wipes to pull too many, then the tank is being disruptive. If, somehow, smaller pulls are causing the run to be disrupted with wipes, then the healer needs to adjust.

If no solution is agreed upon, there is a perfectly reasonable option available. Whichever of the two just can’t tolerate the other playstyle can just leave the party. You’re not going to get banned for using a function the game provides for its intended purpose.

Sorry to say that in an equal situation where nobody is breaking the “don’t be a jerk” rules and neither wants to leave, the healer wins here because the tank’s playstyle literally causes the run to fail. The healer’s does not.

This argument essentially says that the party as a whole has to cater to the whims of its 'weakest' player. Meaning that if a healer doesnt want to or feels that its 'to hard' to do large pulls, everyone else in teh party is forced to abide by the healers demands. This is a problem because what if the healers demands causes a normally 20 -25 minute run to take near an hour. What if that forces players to have to leave due to time constraints. Theyre getting punished because the healer is refusing to play at a higher level due to it being 'to difficult.'

This isnt sustainable nor fair to players. It actively punishes better players by wasting their time, and empowers poorer players by giving them a cudgel to control the party dynamics with by way of reporting to a GM. And this is where its going to get even more complicated: The party will just start kicking those players who pull that. So youll end up with poorer players being forced out of content if they voice their discontent, or poorer players who wont say anything and report to the GM the second they get the chance.

This isnt a feasible situation and the fact that its now a possibility because the ToS is broadening to much to cover 'offense' and 'emotional stress' rather than talking in more concrete terms and holding players accountable to other players. Much like a playground, if you spend your entire time running to the teacher the second anything you dont like happens, most of hte other kids arent going to want to play with you. Remove the teacher aspect, and most kids learn to conflict resolve, usually by falling in line with the standards of the group. Broadly, these overly broad times of terms will probably end up crippling the community long term, much like similar terms have done in other games or other platforms.

[TheCurls]

Except under these new rules, they carry the assuption that both parties can claim the other was "compelling a playstyle onto them". People seem to be hung on the example itself without considering that, should both players choose to report, there's no easy way to determine who "wins" under these new "rules". Both players could be considered "right". So who do you punish? That's a stalemate.
Though, clearly, people do like to provide these extraneous details that were never listed, such as "repeated wipes" or "slow DPS" or "tank throwing a tantrum" without considering the inverse as well (no wipes, good DPS, healer throwing a tantrum).

I can’t speak for other people, but I can assure you I’m not hung up on your example. You asked what is right in your example and I told you. Those extraneous details you keep nitpicking about are vital to the situation.

But let’s go bare bones here. Tank wants to mass pull. Healer does not want to (by skill or choice it doesn’t matter). Neither party is impolite. Both parties clearly and calmly state their preferences... yet neither one of those is willing to compromise? Sure. It makes sense that completely reasonable people choose to draw a line right there and become suddenly unreasonable.

But I’ll play along some more. The run ends in one of these ways:

-One compromises and they complete the duty. Hooray!
-Neither compromises and the run ends when the timer runs out.
-Neither compromises and one of them chooses to leave.
-Neither compromises and one of them decides to initiate a vote kick- if it succeeds, the kicked player was outvoted 3-1, if it fails, the initiating player was outvoted and the run ends in one of the other ways I listed.

In none of those scenarios were any rules broken! The GM is likely to punish neither player. The only time a punishment will be handed out is when someone crosses the line and becomes a jerk about the situation. Reports are not a zero sum situation where someone must be at fault.

[Lium]

Let's be real, these rules are gonna be abused by two types of people. 1. the type we all wanna punish, the actual toxic players, and 2. the overly sensitive players that can find just about anything to be problematic.

The ones who will suffer from these rules? The average player.

Nothing is going to be abused. I guarantee you nothing will change from how it is now. I guarantee it. People are just overreacting, as usual. And you know how I know that? Because of all the MMOs I play or have played, FFXIV had one of the nicer communities around. Go to any fansite, blog, or gaming website and FFXIV is frequently cited for having one of the best communities. By far. Anecdotally, I've rarely had a bad experience with other players in this game. That's quite different than my experience in WoW, SWTOR, Tera, and Aion. Or pretty much any console game I've played. In those games people just troll for the sake of trolling.

Now, that raises a legitimate question as to why SE felt the need to make these changes if the community was already good. Perhaps something(s) have happened that caught their attention. Maybe they've seen an increase in harassment and exploiting. Or maybe they're just doing this to get ready for the influx of players that will come Shadowbringers. Who knows?

At any rate, I didn't have any problems before and I can 100% guarantee that I won't have any problems now.

And you won't either.

[Aulainn]

Guys, I think I'm done for. It was a good run, I wish you all the best.