I asked a GM to clarify the new rules regarding hunts and early pulling

[Moonfish]

Why is this even a question? “Early pulls” don’t exist. People who spawn S ranks do not own those hunts, they’re a server wide monster in which anyone has the right to attack at any time.

[Tigerlilley]

Why is this even a question? “Early pulls” don’t exist. People who spawn S ranks do not own those hunts, they’re a server wide monster in which anyone has the right to attack at any time.

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

[Moonfish]

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

It’s still cut and dry. No one owns these monsters. What actually is a nuisance are people resetting mobs because of these supposed “early pulls” and erasing everyone’s credit towards killing it. That is hindering gameplay. People need to stop looking at the updated rules so hard, this is not the end of the game we currently know.

[Liam_Harper]

It’s still cut and dry. No one owns these monsters. What actually is a nuisance are people resetting mobs because of these supposed “early pulls” and erasing everyone’s credit towards killing it. That is hindering gameplay. People need to stop looking at the updated rules so hard, this is not the end of the game we currently know.

How does it hinder gameplay?

Tag it again, it's not your mob after all, you aren't entitled to anything from it. I'd only see repeated resets to prevent people killing it at all as griefing.

[kikix12]

How does it hinder gameplay?

Your work was "wasted", basically undoing what you did. Having the same potential doesn't change the fact that you cannot do it as efficiently because someone else decided to screw you over.

Tag it again, it's not your mob after all, you aren't entitled to anything from it. I'd only see repeated resets to prevent people killing it at all as griefing.

If a player is solo and have taken 10%-20% of the mobs life in that time, they are certain to get full credit for it.

If a player is solo and there's a bunch of parties that will melt the mob in five or six seconds, the solo player won't be able to get any credit. Rewards?! 1 of each currency.

Getting 1 of each currency and getting 100 seals, 100 poetics and 30 of whatever is the reward at the time is a huge difference.


"Then party!". And?! That's exactly what's obstruction of gameplay means. Making it so a player that can get the reward (and did enough to get it) in one way, could no longer do it without playing how YOU want him to. Can the person party?! Yes. But that's besides the point, not to mention, there may not be anyone to party with to get enough credit anyway. Not every "train" is going to have the people for that. If there are 17 people then someone ends up solo anyway. If there's 18 then there's a party of two which doesn't necessarily going to have it any better.

[Jojoya]

I guess that's what Yoshi P. meant by each server's community "working things out" in regards how hunts will be handled post World Travel, since while "early" pulls might not be against the ToS, they are oft frowned upon and people find ways to exclude/deter players who are prone to it.

Most servers' communities have already worked out the rules that are generally followed on their server, even if not everyone is in total agreement about those rules.

That changes with the start of world visit when players will be doing hunts on other worlds that have a different set of rules compared to what they are used to. There is nothing that states they must obey the rules conventions adopted on the world they are visiting.

What will the end result be? We'll have to wait and see. I think YoshiP is overly optimistic if he thinks players on an entire data center will manage to come to an informal agreement about hunt etiquette in cross world hunts.

"Then party!". And?! That's exactly what's obstruction of gameplay means. Making it so a player that can get the reward (and did enough to get it) in one way, could no longer do it without playing how YOU want him to. Can the person party?! Yes. But that's besides the point, not to mention, there may not be anyone to party with to get enough credit anyway. Not every "train" is going to have the people for that. If there are 17 people then someone ends up solo anyway. If there's 18 then there's a party of two which doesn't necessarily going to have it any better.

Except that's not obstruction of game play by another player. That's game design that generates rewards based on party participation and not individual player participation.

If someone doesn't want to have to join a party to receive the full reward, then they need to convince SE to change the reward structure for hunts. Unless SE makes that sort of change, the player is obstructing themselves by choosing not to join a party.

As for someone ending up solo because the wrong number of players showed up, there's no need for anyone to be solo if the community cooperates. We shuffle people between parties to do our best to make sure everyone who shows up gets into at least a Light Party, which is usually enough to get full credit as long as we don't have an exceptionally large group present. On those rare occasions it's not, partial reward is still better than none at all.

One thing we do when we have new players join our community - we tell them when a relay goes out you drop what you're doing and go straight there if you want to be part of the kill. Most people are willing to be patient for 3-5 minutes for others to teleport and travel. They're not going to wait 10 minutes because you wanted to do other things first.

No its an open world mob. Only resetting a hunt is ban-able.

You dont have to share hunt, you dont have to relay hunts.

If the mob is going to require specific player activity to spawn the mob, then SE should ensure those who specifically engage in that activity to spawn it get rewarded. It's a poor system that gives random players the reward instead of the player who put in the effort.

[KageTokage]

If the mob is going to require specific player activity to spawn the mob, then SE should ensure those who specifically engage in that activity to spawn it get rewarded. It's a poor system that gives random players the reward instead of the player who put in the effort.

I feel like they could spare people a lot of misery by making it so instead of a S rank spawning immediately after its condition is fulfilled, it instead creates some kind of marker on the spot where it's due to spawn, then it'll actually appear a few minutes later.

This both prevents random passersby from getting ganked by sudden hunt spawns and gives people more time to locate the thing before it's potentially pulled.

[kikix12]

Except that's not obstruction of game play by another player. That's game design that generates rewards based on party participation and not individual player participation.

Except...the solo player, if the hunt would not be reset, would get the reward because he did the same thing already.

Context is EVERYTHING when dealing with any contest over everything. A solo player not getting credit because parties outdamage him is perfectly fine. A solo player not getting credit because the parties could outdamage him only due to resetting his work is absolutely not fine and is obstruction of gameplay because it prevents a player from receiving something they did already earn.

On those rare occasions it's not, partial reward is still better than none at all.

And it's still worse than the full reward. I know, this is self-centered argument. But think about it. Unless there is some sort of fixed limit to how many "parties" can be given credit, everyone could get the full credit by everyone going solo. At that point, it means that if the player that happened to find the hunt (or maybe even spawned it) and attacked it early loses his guaranteed full reward due to a reset it is already, logically speaking, a detriment to their play.


It's really simple all in all. Pulling hunts solo is allowed, and so because that's what mobs are for. If they were intended to be shared it'd be impossible to attack them solo. Resetting a mob is not allowed because it's not a part of gameplay, it's made strictly to waste another persons time and effort. Literally. It's very purpose is exactly that, to reset any result of a persons actions.

[Vaer]

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

I consider obstruction of gameplay like killing a mob a blue mage is trying to learn a spell from on purpose or resetting mobs.

If early pulling was considered obstruction you could report someone for pulling a random mob you wanted to pull, or finishing a FATE before people get there which is frankly ridiculous.

[DBriggs304]

The new rules simply mean don't be a jerk.
It's quite simple really.