I asked a GM to clarify the new rules regarding hunts and early pulling

[Tigerlilley]

I have asked about this previously and was advised "early pulling" is not against the rules.

Now, it appears that may have changed, or, they don't know.




I asked again, how do we know if we are breaking rules if we don't know what the rules are? (Regarding hunts).



Apparently the answers are here on the official forum. So uh... is early pulling now against the rules since it could be "nuisance" or "obstruction of gameplay"?

To be honest, what concerns me more about this whole conversation, regardless on what opinions are held via hunts, is that they can't clarify any rules when asked specifically about something.

[Moonfish]

Why is this even a question? “Early pulls” don’t exist. People who spawn S ranks do not own those hunts, they’re a server wide monster in which anyone has the right to attack at any time.

[Tigerlilley]

Why is this even a question? “Early pulls” don’t exist. People who spawn S ranks do not own those hunts, they’re a server wide monster in which anyone has the right to attack at any time.

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

[Moonfish]

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

It’s still cut and dry. No one owns these monsters. What actually is a nuisance are people resetting mobs because of these supposed “early pulls” and erasing everyone’s credit towards killing it. That is hindering gameplay. People need to stop looking at the updated rules so hard, this is not the end of the game we currently know.

[Liam_Harper]

It’s still cut and dry. No one owns these monsters. What actually is a nuisance are people resetting mobs because of these supposed “early pulls” and erasing everyone’s credit towards killing it. That is hindering gameplay. People need to stop looking at the updated rules so hard, this is not the end of the game we currently know.

How does it hinder gameplay?

Tag it again, it's not your mob after all, you aren't entitled to anything from it. I'd only see repeated resets to prevent people killing it at all as griefing.

[kikix12]

How does it hinder gameplay?

Your work was "wasted", basically undoing what you did. Having the same potential doesn't change the fact that you cannot do it as efficiently because someone else decided to screw you over.

Tag it again, it's not your mob after all, you aren't entitled to anything from it. I'd only see repeated resets to prevent people killing it at all as griefing.

If a player is solo and have taken 10%-20% of the mobs life in that time, they are certain to get full credit for it.

If a player is solo and there's a bunch of parties that will melt the mob in five or six seconds, the solo player won't be able to get any credit. Rewards?! 1 of each currency.

Getting 1 of each currency and getting 100 seals, 100 poetics and 30 of whatever is the reward at the time is a huge difference.


"Then party!". And?! That's exactly what's obstruction of gameplay means. Making it so a player that can get the reward (and did enough to get it) in one way, could no longer do it without playing how YOU want him to. Can the person party?! Yes. But that's besides the point, not to mention, there may not be anyone to party with to get enough credit anyway. Not every "train" is going to have the people for that. If there are 17 people then someone ends up solo anyway. If there's 18 then there's a party of two which doesn't necessarily going to have it any better.

[Vaer]

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

I consider obstruction of gameplay like killing a mob a blue mage is trying to learn a spell from on purpose or resetting mobs.

If early pulling was considered obstruction you could report someone for pulling a random mob you wanted to pull, or finishing a FATE before people get there which is frankly ridiculous.

[DBriggs304]

The new rules simply mean don't be a jerk.
It's quite simple really.

[Aylis]

Except now, your "early pull" can be considered nuisance or obstruction of gameplay. That rule about it not being a thing used to stand, does it still? They can't answer the question, where as previously they could.

Personally, no, I don't think early pulling is a thing. But there are a LOT OF PEOPLE that do. On any world. This used to be a easy cut a dry "No" response. Now it isn't.

Yoshida himself once stated hunt's are first come first serve. If you got the force to take it then it's okay. Trying to add "early pulls" as a nuisance or obstruction of game play would both be impossible due to how hunts were designed. B ranks were made for light parties, A ranks were made for full parties and S ranks were made for alliances. Not to mention their open world encounters and no one has anymore right to an open world encounter no differently then anyone has more right then the next over a FATE or whatever.

Secondly trying to enforce this is a very slippery slope. The stigma about early pulling began when the community wanted to treat all hunts as alliance raids. This is a community created thing, not an official SE thing and asking any game company to enforce player created rules is a recipe for disaster because then they would have to enforce any player created rule. Even down right absurd ones like say I see someone I don't know standing on the lawn of my free companies house and I don't like it. Well, I made the rule of no strangers standing on our lawn so now I should be able to report and have it enforced against the offender for nuisance reasons. Lastly what is the cut off time limit for a hunt to go from nuisance or game play obstruction to fair game? If I get messaged about a hunt and it takes me 5 or 10 minutes to log on and get to the place and the thing is dead can I cite early pulling and obstruction of game play against the ones that pulled it?

Yeah, trying to enforce player and community rules would make for a very large headache for SE in the end and would probably lead to the destruction of the game. I'd think having the choice of playing a game where you're forever walking on eggshells and could be reported and banned for anything because a small group made a rule vs a game where you can relax and play in peace in. I'd take the second option far more then the first.

[Nghthawk]

Why is this even a question? “Early pulls” don’t exist. People who spawn S ranks do not own those hunts, they’re a server wide monster in which anyone has the right to attack at any time.

Marley beat me to it, there is no such thing as "Early pulling" all mobs are open to everyone, as far as obstruction of game play it's considered optional content. There is a reason that the new policy set forth is vague.