SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Reinha]

i havent unlocked this yet what are the weekly rewards from the carnival?

Allied Seals and Poetics. The amount scales with the difficulty of the 3 weekly challenges.

[MrKimper]

Actually it would be that bad because of how it'd have to be coded. If it was any other job with a linear progression path for spells and abilities, then it'd be doable. It's because of that whole "going out and learning spells" feature works on a mechanical level that is what really bars Blue Mage from DF content, and the only way they can get that DF wish is if they undo all of it and make it a linear progression job like all the others.

On top of that, there's also the player group factor. "Oh, you don't have the spell X? *Vote kick*". Smart programmers know to prep for the worst from their users, which is why that's the main argument that's been publicly provided in regard to the matter.

Except for the fact that, they're gated from certain quests by not having certain skills, something they could just implement for dungeons.

or the fact that tanks that have not done their job quests and lack certain skills is still a very prevalent and very bad problem. The issue is that for all the fuss they claim learning is, it's really not that much different than normal level progression because a lot of the skills save for a handful are very cookie cutter and indistinct from one another, yet you still end up with something of a rotation at level 50. If each skill was unique and provided a unique needed spell that MADE Blue mage as a job work, then that argument would have weight, but honestly even if a Blue Mage was missing maybe 10 spells it wouldn't make much of a difference as long as they have well.

The good spells (Song of torment, 1000, off guard) so in that way it's really no different from a tank missing shield lob in retrospect. The majority of blue mage's spells are filler.

[GenericMagus]

Except for the fact that, they're gated from certain quests by not having certain skills, something they could just implement for dungeons.

or the fact that tanks that have not done their job quests and lack certain skills is still a very prevalent and very bad problem. The issue is that for all the fuss they claim learning is, it's really not that much different than normal level progression because a lot of the skills save for a handful are very cookie cutter and indistinct from one another, yet you still end up with something of a rotation at level 50. If each skill was unique and provided a unique needed spell that MADE Blue mage as a job work, then that argument would have weight, but honestly even if a Blue Mage was missing maybe 10 spells it wouldn't make much of a difference as long as they have well.

The good spells (Song of torment, 1000, off guard) so in that way it's really no different from a tank missing shield lob in retrospect. The majority of blue mage's spells are filler.

I don't understand why people are so against job quests requiring certain skills considering you do job quests for gear + skills. That's been a staple since ARR

[Shurrikhan]

I don't understand why people are so against job quests requiring certain skills considering you do job quests for gear + skills. That's been a staple since ARR

In practice, given only 49 spells or so, there's nothing wrong with it. But the staple forgives or hides other shortcomings where one would expect a job like BLU to be especially fleshed out -- natural verticality, large arsenals, and choice of progression paths, for instance.

Since BLU has already mostly failed in each of those respects, it now comes down to kicking out the last vestige of what was vaguely promised vs. an easier time of preparing BLU for endgame, which is similarly irrelevant, seeing as it's not remotely capable and is not likely ever to be.

[GenericMagus]

In practice, given only 49 spells or so, there's nothing wrong with it. But the staple forgives or hides other shortcomings where one would expect a job like BLU to be especially fleshed out -- natural verticality, large arsenals, and choice of progression paths, for instance.

Since BLU has already mostly failed in each of those respects, it now comes down to kicking out the last vestige of what was vaguely promised vs. an easier time of preparing BLU for endgame, which is similarly irrelevant, seeing as it's not remotely capable and is not likely ever to be.

BLU is fully capable of being able to do endgame content, the only Limitation of BLU is SE themselves. I mean, if those spells are the carbon copy fillers, I hate to see what the rest look like. Perhaps if it was meant for endgame we'll see far greater variety and applications and less generic and skills that'll actually make a difference.

Remember SEs excuse of BLU being too OP and casting Level 5 Death to kill bosses? Well those bosses are immune to all the broken stuff. It's SEs fault, not the fault of BLU.

[Shurrikhan]

BLU is fully capable of being able to do endgame content, the only Limitation of BLU is SE themselves. I mean, if those spells are the carbon copy fillers, I hate to see what the rest look like. Perhaps if it was meant for endgame we'll see far greater variety and applications and less generic and skills that'll actually make a difference.

Remember SEs excuse of BLU being too OP and casting Level 5 Death to kill bosses? Well those bosses are immune to all the broken stuff. It's SEs fault, not the fault of BLU.

Never said it was any fault of the concept. I've said quite the opposite very, very frequently. But that doesn't change its position for the present, nor, therefore, its prospects presently reachable.

There are "only" three things BLU needs to be a job with both full identity and functionality:
1. Relatively accurate and precise means of checking for readiness for a given role for matchmaking. This makes BLU as able to queue for any particular role as they are able.
2. Caster-target-stat-interaction-calculated granular status effects, aka "debuff damage". This allows for status effects to be used on any target in a balanced manner.
3. A builder-spender system of varying specificity (e.g. a tailored job gauge system). This allows for internal balance between all skills, in turn allowing for multiple builds even within and around the particular utilities, debuffs, and/or builder/spender timings most useful for a given fight.

[Laphael]

There are "only" three things BLU needs to be a job with both full identity and functionality:
1. Relatively accurate and precise means of checking for readiness for a given role for matchmaking. This makes BLU as able to queue for any particular role as they are able.
2. Caster-target-stat-interaction-calculated granular status effects, aka "debuff damage". This allows for status effects to be used on any target in a balanced manner.
3. A builder-spender system of varying specificity (e.g. a tailored job gauge system). This allows for internal balance between all skills, in turn allowing for multiple builds even within and around the particular utilities, debuffs, and/or builder/spender timings most useful for a given fight.

You forgot the 1 Year normal Job developement time and resources.

[Shurrikhan]

You forgot the 1 Year normal Job developement time and resources.

I've not forgotten it. Nor that issues 1 and 2, being things that can give precedent to undermechanics improvements, will be buried as forever "technologically impossible" until they were always possible and just needed a few more patches' time (past 8.2).

[Laphael]

I've not forgotten it. Nor that issues 1 and 2, being things that can give precedent to undermechanics improvements, will be buried as forever "technologically impossible" until they were always possible and just needed a few more patches' time (past 8.2).

You would really rather have no limited Bluemage now for the slim possibility to get it in around 6 years as a normal job?
Or did I understand you wrong? (language barrier maybe?)

[Videra]

You would really rather have no limited Bluemage now for the slim possibility to get it in around 6 years as a normal job?
Or did I understand you wrong? (language barrier maybe?)

Yes, actually. That would be ideal.